Orphan Black - Season 3 Discussion

[Christopher]

I'm afraid the show isn't working so well for me lately. It's getting too broad and way-out. I'm concerned they're starting to delve into mystical hoodoo, first with Cosima's "near-death experience" and sudden interest in spirituality, now with Sarah having a sort of visitation from Beth and a seemingly prophetic vision of Charlotte leading her through a tunnel just like the one she escaped through in the end. That makes it hard to dismiss as a mere hallucination.

Also, things are just getting silly with Alison and Donnie. The latter is turning into a caricature of himself, his stupidity growing to sitcom-dad levels. And what was with that bizarre bedroom-money-underwear-dancing thing? That was just weird. (Granted, Tatiana Maslany looks fantastic in her underwear. I just wish she hadn't been in Alison form, since I'm not particularly fond of Alison.)

Now that I knew Shay was Ksenia Solo, I definitely recognized her voice, at least. I'm surprised I didn't recognize it before, in fact. (I did find her familiar; I just couldn't place her.) Anyway, I find it amusing that she's playing a lesbian character here, because her character on Lost Girl was the only heterosexual female in the entire regular cast. She had to move to another show to finally get her turn making out with a girl.

Surprising that Paul is out of the picture, evidently for good, because Dylan Bruce is the second-billed lead, isn't he? Well, maybe the seventh or eighth if you give Maslany credit for all her characters.

 

[tomalak301]

I loved everything about this episode. The Beth scene was something I've been wanting for a long long time and that ending was sad but awesome at the same time. This season feels like it's finally picked up and it should be a hell of a conclusion the final 4 episodes will bring.

 

[Admiral2]

Also, things are just getting silly with Alison and Donnie. The latter is turning into a caricature of himself, his stupidity growing to sitcom-dad levels. And what was with that bizarre bedroom-money-underwear-dancing thing? That was just weird.

That's called "Makin' it rain!", and it wasn't weird, just funny as hell once you get the joke.

(Granted, Tatiana Maslany looks fantastic in her underwear. I just wish she hadn't been in Alison form, since I'm not particularly fond of Alison.)

That I can't help you with, since I'm madly in love with Alison and therefore thought that scene was better than Clone Club Dance Party.

 

[tomalak301]

Last night I was typing from my phone so here is a more comprehensive review of the episode:

That was a hell of an episode. I really loved the Beth scene because it's something I've always wanted. While it may not be "the" Beth, we never saw "The" Beth other than through her jogging video but we got a look into what Beth's life was like and why she jumped. I thought it brought the series full circle and brought Beth back into the storyline reminding us that yes she was and still is an important character.

I also loved the Felix/Rachel scene. I've said earlier this season that I can't ever forgive Rachel for what she did to Felix, but here comes Felix who is desperate for answers and he made me have sympathy for Rachel. It was almost kind of a ugly kind of reconciliation scene for me and I do wonder if this is the start of Rachel's redemption, especially when she was looking at the picture of her as a child with Ethen at the end. I'm really looking forward to seeing what the writers do with Rachel now, and if in a small way, Felix jumpstarted new Rachel.

This season really is kicking it into high gear now. While I just thought last week's episode was just alright, Episode 4 and 6 were great, and I'm glad Sarah finally got out and we can see Sarah as Sarah again. Also, I was spoiled with Paul's death, but how he did it was really well done. I keep thinking we were going to lose one of the Clones (I still say Alison might be the one who dies by season's end if we do have to lose one of the Clones) but I didn't expect the big death so far to be Paul, especially when Bruce's name comes up 3rd in the credits. Like I said, it was a well done scene and nice sacrifice.

 

[bigdaddy]

Of course it was Paul. He was "ehh" in season 1 and useless in season 2. They finally found something to do this season and they kill him. I was fine with that. I'm starting to feel with the last episode that it's beginning of the end of the show, they really need to wrap it up soon because the rabbit hole will just become insanely silly.

 

[tomalak301]

Of course it was Paul. He was "ehh" in season 1 and useless in season 2. They finally found something to do this season and they kill him. I was fine with that. I'm starting to feel with the last episode that it's beginning of the end of the show, they really need to wrap it up soon because the rabbit hole will just become insanely silly.

They have two more seasons left, so that's about 24 episodes to wrap it up. That should give them enough time.

 

[Christopher]

That was a hell of an episode. I really loved the Beth scene because it's something I've always wanted. While it may not be "the" Beth, we never saw "The" Beth other than through her jogging video but we got a look into what Beth's life was like and why she jumped. I thought it brought the series full circle and brought Beth back into the storyline reminding us that yes she was and still is an important character.

That's a good interpretation. I just hope you're right that it isn't "the" Beth; as I said, I'm uneasy with the implication that there may have been something actually supernatural going on, a near-death glimpse of "the other side." I'm hopeful it's just Sarah's hallucination, a symbolic representation of what's going on in her own psychology. This is one of the few really scientifically grounded SF shows on television, and those are rare and refreshing things for me, so I dread even the hint of anything more mystical.

And just in general, I don't like scenes that are supposed to be one character's hallucination but in which the other character being hallucinated seems too fully formed, too authentically themselves and even able to recognize or understand things that the hallucinating character can't. I suppose the idea is that it's the character's subconscious nudging them to recognize something they can't see consciously, and speaking through the image of a person the character has been influenced by or associates with a particular way of thinking; but it's kind of a reach from a credibility standpoint.

I also loved the Felix/Rachel scene. I've said earlier this season that I can't ever forgive Rachel for what she did to Felix, but here comes Felix who is desperate for answers and he made me have sympathy for Rachel. It was almost kind of a ugly kind of reconciliation scene for me and I do wonder if this is the start of Rachel's redemption, especially when she was looking at the picture of her as a child with Ethen at the end. I'm really looking forward to seeing what the writers do with Rachel now, and if in a small way, Felix jumpstarted new Rachel.

Yeah, that I did appreciate -- that they're still showing the ambiguity of the characters, not putting them in "good" or "bad" boxes.

...but I didn't expect the big death so far to be Paul, especially when Bruce's name comes up 3rd in the credits.

Hmm, yeah... I checked, and he is third-billed now, even though he was second-billed in the previous two seasons. I guess that reflects his reduced role this season.

(Season one's main titles listed Tatiana Maslany, Dylan Bruce, Jordan Gavaris, Kevin Hanchard, Michael Mando, and Maria Doyle Kennedy. Season two was Maslany, Bruce, Gavaris, Hanchard, Evelyn Brochu, and Kennedy. Season three is Maslany, Gavaris, Bruce, Hanchard, Ari Millen/Kristian Bruun (on the same card), and Kennedy.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

A. My husband has no nose.

B. How does he smell?

A. Terrible.

 

[bigdaddy]

They have two more seasons left, so that's about 24 episodes to wrap it up. That should give them enough time.

Oh I know. I just think the whole thing with the clone issues being made into a weapon is overly silly to me.

 

[Christopher]

Oh I know. I just think the whole thing with the clone issues being made into a weapon is overly silly to me.

There's nothing silly about it. A disease that could sterilize the female population of an enemy country? If that could be weaponized, delivered through means other than sexual intercourse or transfusion, it would be an utterly devastating bioweapon, psychologically as well as physically. Throughout history, countries have struck at their enemies' women, murdering and raping them en masse, as much to terrorize and demoralize the enemy psychologically as to threaten them with the potential extinction of their population and way of life. Attacks on women's reproduction are a long, brutal, and shameful tradition in the history of warfare. So no, this idea is anything but silly. It's chillingly plausible and by far the most horrific thing any of the villains on this show have attempted to do yet.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I was sad to see Paul go but they gave the character a pretty epic sendoff. He "punished" Virginia and Rudy by blowing up the remains and whatever else was in that lab. Hopefully that will refocus her on saving her boys, but as they are government funded, the sterilization angle maybe the route she had to take to keep funding.

This also may set Mark up to be the inside man. He now knows that Gracie was put in jeopardy by all of this and he obviously still loves her. The fact that Mark cares for her so much and Sarah's family is now taking care of Gracie may help them down the road.

Wow! The Felix and Rachel scene was intense. (Poor old Scott is such a nice soul.) Rachel was pretty coldblooded in the past but maybe her time of helplessness will change her. - Also, I still feel that her father telling her that she no longer deserved him was one of the most chilling and heartbreaking scenes in the show. Perhaps the picture of her father was a sign of contrition on her part?

How many Castor clones are left? I tried to count the pictures on Virginia's desk. (Although I could not tell if they were all supposed to be clones or not.) I think I counted 5?
1. Sgt. Mark Rollins
2. 2nd Lt. Parsons (deceased)
3. Seth of unknown rank (deceased)
4. Corporal Miller (deceased)
5. Rudy - alive and crazy.

Are there more? One of them must have exhibited the symptoms first which spurred putting Mark and Paul undercover. I would assume that each group originally made the same number of clones but maybe not.

 

[Christopher]

I guess you could say that Mark is the "Sarah" of the Castors and Rudy is the "Helena." I doubt there's an Alison among them, though, since they were all raised in the military, not suburbia (and as we've clearly seen, suburbia is far scarier and more hardcore). Probably not a Cosima either, since the non-clones like Coady handle the sciencey stuff. And no Rachel, since they're all soldiers rather than administrators. Although you could say that they're all Rachels, because they're all self-aware clones raised within the system as its loyal agents.

It may be just as well that there are only a few major Castor characters, since they're harder to distinguish visually than the Ledas. Women in our culture have more options for hairstyle and cosmetic use, so that makes it easier to give them distinctive looks. Sarah's got a fairly natural hairstyle and an understated punk look, Alison has the bangs and the ponytail and the prim, meticulous cosmetics, Cosima's got the cornrows and the goth-y black eyeliner, Rachel's got the high-end spa treatment, and Helena's a strung-out, sunken-eyed mess. (By the way, have Helena's dark roots been growing out while she's been in captivity? I doubt she's had the chance for a dye job.) But the Castors are mainly distinguished by hair -- Mark has slightly longer hair with a bit of an old-fashioned Brylcreem wave, Rudy has the buzzed sides and the weird little pompadour/fauxhawk, the Corporal had a military buzz cut, and Seth had a moustache and a slightly grown-out buzz cut. And of course Rudy has the facial scars, which is a rather unsubtle way to differentiate him visually.

Granted, the Castors would have more options for varying looks if they weren't in the military -- beards, longer hair, dyed hair, that sort of thing. Actually I'm surprised they're allowed as much variation in hairstyle as they are. Rudy's hair isn't exactly regulation, I'd think. Maybe they're allowed a bit more leeway in that regard so that their superiors can tell them apart. (I'm surprised we haven't seen any blond ones yet, actually.)

 

[QCzar]

I'm far from convinced that we've seen them all. Once they established that they were "brothers" to the Ledas* I began feeling we'll not see the end of them this season, even if all or all but one of the known ones are killed off. I was initially reticent about the inclusion of male clones, and certainly having them be such a big focus, but the characters, while not as distinctive, are surprisingly fascinating in their own way. I think they'll stick around.

They're still side characters anyway, the show's still clearly focused on the core four.

Ksenia Solo really does play an almost unrecognizably different kind of character here than in Lost Girl. The voice, however, is unmistakable.

* = It's telling that I have so much more trouble referring to the girl clones as "Ledas", given their wildly distinctive personalities and freer agency, than I do calling the boy clones "Castors".

 

[Christopher]

I'm far from convinced that we've seen them all.

I never said we had. I was talking about the ones who play a role in the episodes. Of course there are bound to be more of them beyond that, just as there are many Leda clones we've only heard of in passing. (Including Janika Zingler, Aryanna Giordano, Danielle Fournier, Krystal Goderich, and the six Helsinki victims.) We've only met, I think, five Castor clones so far -- Mark, Rudy, Seth, Miller, and the open-brained guinea pig. There are probably dozens more, at least. But most of the Castors are probably pretty interchangeable soldiers. The ones who get featured roles in the episodes are those who stand out from the pack in one way or another.

Ksenia Solo really does play an almost unrecognizably different kind of character here than in Lost Girl. The voice, however, is unmistakable.

Her voice is recognizable when I know to listen for it, but she's playing a different character with a softer, calmer speech pattern than Kenzi, so at first I just found it familiar in a way I couldn't place.

* = It's telling that I have so much more trouble referring to the girl clones as "Ledas", given their wildly distinctive personalities and freer agency, than I do calling the boy clones "Castors".

I guess we could still call the girls "Clone Club."

 

[QCzar]

Clone Club it is, then.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It's odd that we see Leda clones and Castor clone as sisters & brothers, when Leda was the mother & Castor and Pollux were the sons (plus "Helen" the daughter).

I wonder if there are Pollux clones somewhere else. We do have 2 more seasons.

 

[Christopher]

It's odd that we see Leda clones and Castor clone as sisters & brothers, when Leda was the mother & Castor and Pollux were the sons (plus "Helen" the daughter).

To be precise -- deep breath -- Leda was "seduced" (which probably means raped) by Zeus in the form of a swan on the same night that she slept with her husband Tyndareus. Somehow this resulted in her laying two eggs. From one egg hatched the mortal children Castor and Clytemnestra (presumably Tyndareus's spawn), and from the other hatched the half-divine children Polydeuces (Pollux if you're Roman) and Helen. Oddly, it's two pairs of opposite-sex monozygotic twins, which shouldn't be biologically possible -- but then, neither is a woman laying giant swan eggs.

So technically, Project Leda should probably have been called Project Clytemnestra. But it's easy enough to see why it wasn't.

It's interesting, though, that the Ledas include a Helena, a variant form of Helen. And Paul sounds a bit like Pollux, but that's probably a reach...

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I know the basic story. I commented because Leda was the mother of Castor & Pollux, rather than their sestra.

But yeah, Leda rolls of the tongue better.

So what, there could be more Pauls out there?

 

[Christopher]

I know the basic story. I commented because Leda was the mother of Castor & Pollux, rather than their sestra.

Yes, of course. But Clytemnestra was Castor's most immediate sibling, so I thought she should be mentioned and placed in context.

They could've gone with Project Helen, but then the boy clones should've been Project Pollux. Although that might've made more sense. Castor's claim to mythological fame was being a really good horse tamer, but Pollux's skill was in boxing. So he was the fighter, a better fit for the soldier-cloning project. Conversely, Helen's mythic significance is being so valued and coveted that a massive war was fought over her -- which is a pretty good analogy for the way everyone's trying to claim and control the bodies and genes of Sarah and her sisters. So Helen and Pollux would make a lot more sense than Leda and Castor. (Clytemnestra, meanwhile, is famous mainly for her role in the murder of her husband Agamemnon -- either she ax-murdered him herself or her lover Aegisthus did, depending on the myth.)

But yeah, Leda rolls of the tongue better.

I suspect they came up with the Leda name before they decided to add boy clones to the mix, so they were kind of stuck with a mismatch. Maybe the original intended significance was that Leda spawned so many children, and that at least half her children were more than human.

So what, there could be more Pauls out there?

I was just thinking that maybe the writers had the myth in mind when choosing character names, nothing more.

 

[Aldo]

So I got real busy and was two episodes behind for a while until today. Finally was able to catch up.

Wow oh wow oh wow! I freaking loved the Beth/Sarah scene, like sjsharksfan39 it was a long time coming for me. They used to do stuff like this all the time in 'Buffy, so I had no problem with the show going into the spiritual, but it gave Sarah the kick in the pants she needed to start the right questions. And it was so awesome seeing Sarah interacting with Beth, even if it was in her head.

I never thought for a minute that Helena was going to leave Sarah behind, even if it took her a whole episode to return to her Seestra. At the end when Sarah was knocked down by the explosion and we saw someone coming to her, I just knew it was Helena. What a fantastic episode.

I love how Dyad is kind of back in the picture now, what with their absence from most of the season. I really like how they're integrating Rachel into the story line. Could she maybe become a part of clone club in Season 4? I know it seems implausible now, but I never thought Helena would be dancing with the rest of her sisters in Season 2 when we first met her in Season 1.