Ocampa in Starfleet

[alpha_leonis]

A post of mine over in the TNG forum got me pondering this topic. I don't mean to limit the discussion specifically to Ocampa, but they're the best example of an extreme situation.

The question: could a member of the Ocampa race expect to have a reasonably successful career in Starfleet? The average Ocampa lifespan is about nine years. Assuming (if I recall correctly) that they reach adulthood at age one, then they spend the human-standard four years at the Academy, they'd be middle-aged by the time they graduate. Then if they spent a reasonable time "learning the ropes" as Ensign, they'd then be ready to retire just in time for their first promotion. In other words, could Starfleet, as a multi-species organization, reasonably make consideration for varying lifespans among its members?

On the one hand, it seems rather unfair to limit shorter-lived species in this way. On the other hand, it seems perfectly reasonable.

One could argue that a result of an Ocampa's rapid lifespan is a rapid educational ability, such that they could rush through Academy training in a few months, and then promote up the ranks equally rapidly, in order to make the most of their short time in the service. But then, you might have an Ocampa officer make Captain in just a few years, and become a commanding officer over a number of their human classmates who are still stuck back at Ensign. Could be demoralizing for the humans.

At the opposite extreme would be longer-lived species like the Vulcans. Because they live for two centuries or more, they can (and apparently often do) have multiple careers over the course of a lifetime. Spock spent decades in Starfleet, then moved on to spend decades more as an ambassador. Tuvok started a career in Starfleet, left to go do other things for a while, then came back again. By the time of Voyager, he was over a century old, only holding the rank of Lieutenant, and taking orders from a human captain less than half his age.

At an even further extreme would be somebody like Data, who was theoretically immortal (Nemesis notwithstanding). It's been pointed out that he was the only character in TNG who was never even offered a promotion between Farpoint and Nemesis. And he didn't seem to care too much -- Data could literally spend centuries at the same rank, and it wouldn't bother him at all.

So back to my original qustion then: what of the Ocampa?

 

[Anthony Sabre]

Could be demoralizing for the humans.

To me the demoralizing part would be getting close to someone who has a life span of a very young child. Even sleep would be wasting precious time.

If they served in Starfleet at all, it would be best if done as non commissioned officers. They'd lose too much time in the Academy. Plus, regardless of life span, most officers spend a fair amount of time as junior ranked (Ensign thru Lt. ). Experience comes with time, not just age.

I know one thing; I wouldn't want to make the decision on an issue like that.

 

[nx1701g]

We have - technically - seen Ocampan's in Starfleet roles on Voyager, but that could be because of the hazards of their situation.

In Before and After:
- Kes was said to be a full Doctor at the time of her death.
- Kes' daughter was married to Tom Paris and was a commissioned Science Officer

If you go by the times of the series Year of Hell would be the determining point. Since it took place in Season 4 had Kes survived she would have been around 5 years old (she was born in 2369) and had her daughter at that time.

She would have been 9 years old in 2378 - the time of her death in B&A. She also had a Grandson who would probably be around a year old at the time of her death (perhaps younger). Her daughter - born in 2374 - was already commissioned in 2378. I'd say it was about three years for her to obtain her position.

 

[Deks]

SF could view a single year of the Ocampa as a decade.
And as such could adapt Academy training programs for them.
In terms of experience ... well, they could make captains when they reach 3 or 4 years time (again on specialized training and experience).

In any case, I don't think it would be demoralizing for humans.
They are tolerant of other species and would see this as a suitable way of providing equal opportunities for the Ocampa who would serve in SF.
Of course with Kes leaving the ship and all, I think that it will take SF some time before they revisit Ocampan homeworld and develop any kind of relations with them.

 

[Timo]

Some people might take objection to being commanded by a child. But then again, the Ocampa age rapidly in the physical sense as well, so a four-year-old would look quite mature. The dislike for the youth would then have to come from the intellectual level, as instinctually the superior officer would not look particularly young.

I wonder how far Starfleet will go to accommodate alien physiologies and cultures. It seems to welcome the parasitic Trills; I wouldn't wonder if classic vampires were welcome as well, with their fellow crew being told to report for in situ, in vivo blood donation at regular intervals. But how about employing one of those creatures that feed on strong emotions, or on the terror of impending or actual death? Would a stock of dying humanoids be provided for them, perhaps coupled with an efficient resuscitation procedure?

It would be fun to have some Marines from the Alien movies. And I don't mean the humans (or the android).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Finn]

Beverly was promoted?

 

[Timo]

Beverly was a character?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Basill]

I have to say I really like this topic and how it illustrates the multi-species nature of Starfleet and how it would be forced to deal with some of the more radical distinctions it might have to deal with in that biological spectrum. There are hot and cold natured species, air breathers and not. After all the Federation council has members that can't breathe typcial Class M atmospheres, and then there are the of course the Benzites, who must utilize little breather units when outside of their "geostructure." But disparate lifespans have always fascinated me as well, and this is a perfect example. Just think, the Trill, the Vulcans, Humans, and then Ocampa; that's quite a range of life histories right there. I'm sure there are tons more examples but I can't think of any right off the bat. Klingons seem to age well though, even compared to humans.

This is all what-ifs, but if Starfleet should ever have dealings with the Ocampa again and take them into their fold, they might be able to utilize some information obtained from Voyager's encounter with Susperia, and the fact that her group of Ocampa lived at least twice as long as the Homeworld Ocampa did. Granted it is still (in my mind) such a short time to experience all the wonder that is, but it's a start.

 

[Sector 7]

Beverly was promoted?

Beverly wanted command experience, (as did ... Troi). Eventually Crusher was Captain of a science ship.

 

[Triskelion]

I just don't think an Ocampa could be an officer. It also takes time for admins to evaluate people, which must be done over time, and Starfleet would not entrust someone with rank who had not been observed over time, by what amounts to tens of teachers, as well as all the various and sundry people in one's background.

I mean, imagine an Ocampa applying to be a police officer. There just isn't enough character information on which to place an institutionalized trust.

 

[Deks]

I just don't think an Ocampa could be an officer. It also takes time for admins to evaluate people, which must be done over time, and Starfleet would not entrust someone with rank who had not been observed over time, by what amounts to tens of teachers, as well as all the various and sundry people in one's background.

I mean, imagine an Ocampa applying to be a police officer. There just isn't enough character information on which to place an institutionalized trust.

Why not ?
I mean th Ocampa have their own culture/rules and jobs in which they can advance.
If they had a space program of their own, then their culture would create such a program where thy would have captains, admirals and whatnot if their structure is similar to our own.

The only difference would be the time span, and SF would quite frankly have to adjust so they can provide equal opportunities ... which quite frankly can be done.
The only thing that people who evaluate them have to stop looking at things from their usual perspective and be objective/reasonable when dealing with races that drastically differ.

 

[exodus]

I don't think an Ocampian would spend 4 years at the Academy, they'd spend much less.

Using Kes as an example, she learned how to be a nurse in a matter of weeks because Ocampa learn and retain knowledge much, much faster than a human. An Ocampian probably would complete the Academy in half the time of their human peers.

 

[captcalhoun]

Beverly was promoted from LTC to Commander IIRC...

 

[Timo]

Not within the timeframe of the shows and movies, tho. As said, between "Encounter at Farpoint" and ST:NEM, she remained full Commander and did not seek or receive promotions. It's only in one possible future in "All Good Things.." that she gets a fourth pip, and that's later than ST:NEM in the chronology of the Trek universe.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[alpha_leonis]

Not within the timeframe of the shows and movies, tho. As said, between "Encounter at Farpoint" and ST:NEM, she remained full Commander and did not seek or receive promotions. It's only in one possible future in "All Good Things.." that she gets a fourth pip, and that's later than ST:NEM in the chronology of the Trek universe.

Timo Saloniemi

I might be remembering incorrectly -- but I have a distinct impression of seeing Crusher wearing Lt. Commander's pips on her collar in the first part of Farpoint, then being switched to full Commander's pips later in the same episode. Could have been a mistake by the costuming department, but it also could indicate that her promotion was "in process" at the time of her posting to Enterprise. At least that's the way I'd like to look at it.

Does anybody have a copy of Farpoint available to go confirm whether this is true?

 

[Timo]

Well, there's always TrekCore. The screencaps there seem to show that Crusher had her full three pips in the Farpoint Mall scene, but there are no conclusive caps about the scene where she treats LaForge. She has full three pips again when she chats with her son, and visits the bridge with him. The same just before the beam-in to the orbiting alien "craft".

Admittedly, in those caps, the three pips each glisten differently, depending on their angle, so it wouldn't be difficult to mistake some of the shots for showing 2½ rather than 3 pips.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Triskelion]

I just don't think an Ocampa could be an officer. It also takes time for admins to evaluate people, which must be done over time, and Starfleet would not entrust someone with rank who had not been observed over time, by what amounts to tens of teachers, as well as all the various and sundry people in one's background.

I mean, imagine an Ocampa applying to be a police officer. There just isn't enough character information on which to place an institutionalized trust.

Why not ?
I mean th Ocampa have their own culture/rules and jobs in which they can advance.
If they had a space program of their own, then their culture would create such a program where thy would have captains, admirals and whatnot if their structure is similar to our own.

The only difference would be the time span, and SF would quite frankly have to adjust so they can provide equal opportunities ... which quite frankly can be done.
The only thing that people who evaluate them have to stop looking at things from their usual perspective and be objective/reasonable when dealing with races that drastically differ.

Equal opportunities are important of course, and certainly the Ocampa can have their own systems. But to ask an institution like Starfleet to change its protocols is not going to be easy. After all, if it can be argued that an Ocampa can make officer in two years, how about a human who manages the same study load? How about exceptions for all the others who have to be required for 4? If I were Academy Commandant (or whatever), I would say, the requirement stands for all, take it or leave it. Why? Because I am human and I need time to evaluate who I'm entrusting my starships to. And there are a lot of people to watch. Furthermore, two years in the academy is not four years. It's a whole different proposition. I've met scads of people who can live in Shanghai for 2 years. 4 years, not so much. It's different.

So yes, accommodations should be attempted, but then there is having no standards at all in order to pander and appear equal. In my opinion, time is a key ingredient to assessing officer material. Especially when dealing with the young and unproven. Four years of experience is nothing, nothing compared with ten or twenty or thirty. For example, every day I talk to 20 somethings who believe they grasp my concepts, when in fact, they barely apprehend the most basic of concepts and content themselves with "understanding all they need to". They are only missing the rest of the iceberg. One poster's sig said it well: "Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see. "

To allow a person who has been in this universe for less than 5 years be given the same rewards as those who have survived and studied for 20, is to devalue the entire process. We don't hand out captaincies to anyone who shows up. Or maybe that's what we expect these days? Doesn't sound enlightened to me.

 

[matthunter]

They may have been prejudiced, but if SF didn't allow Data to graduate in less than 4 years despite the fact he could have learnt the entire syllabus in two seconds flat, then they shouldn't be making exceptions for the Ocampa.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

If they allowed an Ocampa to graduate in 1-2 years would a Ba`ku remain a cadet for 40 years?

 

[Michael]

If they allowed an Ocampa to graduate in 1-2 years would a Ba`ku remain a cadet for 40 years?

Sorry, but this doesn't make sense at all. The Ba'ku don't have a particularly slow comprehension. The Ocampa on the other hand seem to be pretty fast learners.