Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

someone posted this in the SF&F forum, but you really should know:

walmart has an amazing deal on the individual babylon 5 seasons.

if you don't own a set or two, this would be the time to buy.

(full disclosure: i refuse to shop at walmart...YMMV)

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Right after I bought the whole series, too.

Ah, just as well, since I also refuse to shop at Walmart.

Thanks for posting the info, though, Mal. If you ever see a deal on Crusade or the Movies Box Set, let us all know. I'm still looking for those two at a decent price.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Conflicts of Interest"

Season four continues to be very good with the Earth Civil War thread slowly heating up. Garibaldi meets Lise for the first time since season one (and the first time in person since before that). William Edgars contacts Garibaldi and asks him to come to Mars. G'Kar and Londo work together with Sheridan, reluctantly. Ivanova and Franklin have a great moment. And Zathras makes a surprise reappearance. The first time I saw this episode, I didn't buy Zathras coming back, but upon second viewing, it's such a treat to see the character again that I just love it. A shame we'll never get to see Zathras again after this.

The only thing I didn't really buy was Lise's whole story. I wish that JMS had just made Franz into Bill Edgars, or had said that Lise lied about his name back in season one. The whole divorced, lost daughter angle is too much, especially when it doesn't get looked at again (as far as I can remember). Still, not enough to lower my grade of this episode.

Grade: A

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Yeah...I didn't get that whole Lise storyline either - especially since she knew how Garibaldi felt from before. Why didn't she contact him?

But other than that, a great episode.

By the way, speaking of Zathras...oddly enough, when it comes to B5 phrases I use most IRL, the one I use most comes from him.

Sometimes when I'm looking for something in a darkened drawer or something, think I've found it, pull it out,...and discover I've made a mistake, I find myself mumbling under my breath, in Zathras-speak: "Not the one".



I am SUCH a nerd!

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Oh frell, I've been talking like Zathras since I saw him in Babylon Squared and thought to myself, "Hey, this show is pretty good... not the one, not the one!"

Yeah, count me as a nerd, too.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Speaking of being a nerd, I managed to pick up all three Babylon 5 trilogies from the library today. (Psi Corp, Legions of Fire, and the Passing of the Techno-Mages). Since I haven't seen River of Souls, Call to Arms, Legend of the Rangers, or Crusade, should I steer clear of any for now? Which should I begin with? Thanks, all.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

No, you're actually in good shape. "A Call To Arms" and "Crusade" take place after the Technomage trilogy, but that doesn't cause you any difficulty as far as a coherent storyline goes.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Okay, good. I've been reading "The Shadow Within" for the moment, and then I'll either move onto the Techno-Mage trilogy or the Psi Corp Trilogy (which might be lame because the library doesn't have The Fate of Bester).

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

If you are reading "The Shadow Within", then I would go right into the Technomage trilogy. They are written by the same author and related closely through the subject matter.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Sounds like a plan. I'm 100 pages into The Shadow Within at the moment, and enjoying it (though I do have a few complaints). I'll write up a short response when I'm finished, same as I've been doing with the episodes. Then I'll move onto the Technomage books.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

You know, actually, while it's not a big deal, I would advise someone to watch Crusade before reading the Technomage trilogy. Simply because there are a few mysteries about Galen's past and about the Technomages that are fleshed out in the Technomage books that I think work better if you watch Crusade first, and *then* read the books. I'm thinking in particular about some of the stuff that's dealt with in the Crusade episodes "The Well of Forever" and "The Path of Sorrows" (and actually, especially the stuff in the unproduced scripts, that unfortunately you won't be able to see), but beyond that there's the whole issue of what led Galen to the point in his life that he's at at the time of "Crusade", and why is he on the mission in the first place.

Now, I'm also sympathetic to someone who argues for the *opposite* approach--that it's better to read the backstory in the Technomage books, and *then* watch Crusade, which, after all, takes place later on chronologically. But I just think that, when watching Crusade, it's better to experience Galen as a more mysterious figure. I mean, that's the way it was originally intended when JMS was writing Crusade...the Technomage books hadn't been written yet at that point. The Technomage books kind of demystify Galen and the Technomages a bit, and so I think it's better to hold off on them until after Crusade. But I agree it's kind of a murky issue, so if anyone has opposing opinions....?

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Rumors, Bargains, Lies" and "Moments of Transition"

These episodes continue to ramp up the tension with the Earth Civil War, as well as the Minbari Civil War. In the end, one is brought to a head, and the other is resolved. But first, Sheridan comes up with a plan to convince the non-aligned worlds to allow the White Star fleet to police their space. This adds some humor, as well as advances the plot. I'm not sure if I buy Ivanova being kept in the dark, but it certainly made her performance on VOR that much more convincing. Garibaldi is getting closer to Edgars, and Bester offers the first shred of proof that he is behind whatever is wrong with Mr. Garibaldi. Delenn and Neroon finally comes to terms with one another, and it is Neroon who sacrifices himself in the end. Finally, Sherian makes the decision that will drive into the next six episodes against Earth. Enough is enough.

That was the good. The bad: Lyta's story. This is when the writing of her character and her story line comes apart. I just don't buy that Sheridan would force her into smaller quarters. He fought a similar action against himself in season two, after all. And without Lyta, I doubt that the Shadows could have even been defeated. She was instrumental in testing out the telepath defense against their ships in "Walkabout," crucial in the first major engagment against the Shadows in "Shadow Dancing," absolutely necesary in the killing of Ulkosh (or Kosh II, or whatever the second Vorlon was called), and finally, an important part of the final battle at Coriana 6. She's a hero. Sheridan wouldn't force her into smaller quarters. But, as a whole, these episodes are very good, and still worthy of high marks.

Grades: A & A

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

chrisspringob said:
You know, actually, while it's not a big deal, I would advise someone to watch Crusade before reading the Technomage trilogy. Simply because there are a few mysteries about Galen's past and about the Technomages that are fleshed out in the Technomage books that I think work better if you watch Crusade first, and *then* read the books. I'm thinking in particular about some of the stuff that's dealt with in the Crusade episodes "The Well of Forever" and "The Path of Sorrows" (and actually, especially the stuff in the unproduced scripts, that unfortunately you won't be able to see), but beyond that there's the whole issue of what led Galen to the point in his life that he's at at the time of "Crusade", and why is he on the mission in the first place.

You know... that is a very good point. It's also in keeping with the way I personally like to watch "In the Beginning" in relation to the rset of the series. Certainly it makes sense to view / read things chronologically, but often I like the "going back to fill in the holes" approach. It's the way I first encountered all of these.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Since I'm watching In the Beginning in between Objects at Rest and Sleeping in Light this time around, I think I'll wait on the Technomage Trilogy until I finish with Crusade. I'm just past 100 pages in The Shadow Within, so I should be finished with it by the end of this week (also reading a DS9 book and a short story anthology concurrently).

Since I won't have book 3 of the Psi Corp Trilogy, should I read the first two? Additionally, since Galen appears on the cover of one of the Legion of Fire books, should I wait to read those before watching Crusade as well?

Thanks.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I tend to think it's best to complete a trilogy of books before moving on to any of the others, but that may jsut be me. I am interested to hear your thoughts on the Psi Corps trilogy, as compared to the others. To me... it may be the most original in story and characters.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Even though Galen shows up in the "Legion of Fire" books, in a timeframe that overlaps with what would have been the 5 year story arc of Crusade, I think the author was careful not to give away anything big about Crusade. So maybe it's OK to read it before watching Crusade. But it's been quite a few years since I read those books, so I might be forgetting something.

The Telepath books are written in a very different style from the other trilogies. For both the Centauri and Technomage trilogies, you basically have a single, coherent story that's been chopped up into three parts, a la Lord of the Rings. With the telepath books, you've got three different stories that are all pretty distinct, with only tenuous connections between them: The first book is about the origins of what eventually became the Psi Corps (most of it taking place well before any of the B5 characters--including Bester--were born). The second book is about the life of Bester, from childhood up until Season 1 of B5. The third book takes place years later, after the 5 year timeline of B5 and after the Telepath War, when Bester is on the run and Garibaldi is trying to hunt him down.

Really, you could read the first two books, and then hold off on the third one for a long time with no problems (IMHO). There are some references to Book 2 in the third book, owing to the fact that both focus on Bester, but it's not like Book 2 leaves you with a big cliffhanger that has to be resolved in Book 3. The stories are pretty distinct.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

You know what would be really cool (hint, hint)?

Is if someone would make up a 'timeline' of the B5 universe using B5, the films, Crusade, and the books. All on the same timeline, so that those of us who are organizationally impaired could have a reference.

If someone would do that, honestly - I'd print it OUT even! Cus I can never remember where stuff falls.

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

PKTrekGirl said:
You know what would be really cool (hint, hint)?

Is if someone would make up a 'timeline' of the B5 universe using B5, the films, Crusade, and the books. All on the same timeline, so that those of us who are organizationally impaired could have a reference.

You mean like this one?

Jan

 

[Lindley]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

That's relatively easy for the most part. Here's an approximate version.

~2158: Psi Corps: Dark Genesis
~2240s-2250s: Psi Corps: Deadly Relations
2245-2248: In the Beginning (main story)
2257: The Gathering, The Shadow Within
2258: Season 1, Passing of the Technomages: Casting Shadows
2259: Season 2, To Dream in the City of Sorrows, Passing of the Technomages: Summoning Light
2260: Season 3, Passing of the Technomages: Invoking Darkness
2261: Season 4, Thirdspace
2262: Season 5
2263: The River of Souls, Legions of Fire: The Long Night of Centauri Prime
2265: Legend of the Rangers: To Live and Die in Starlight
2266: A Call To Arms
2267: Crusade
~2270-2281: Psi Corps: Final Reckoning
~2267-2278: Legions of Fire: Armies of Light and Dark, Legions of Fire: Out of the Darkness
2278: In the Beginning (framing sequence)
2281: Sleeping In Light

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^ Well, I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the chronological order in which to watch the show(s), films, and read the books.

But I suppose a timeline of all of B5 history going back to Valen could be useful in getting to what I want. And might be interesting to read in any event.

Hopefully it will have references to all the books and episodes so I can see where they all fit.

I'm really just looking for a chronological 'to-do' list. But it's quite impressive that someone wrote down the history of the entire B5 universe. Very nice!