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Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

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Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen, if you've already done this and I've forgotten, then I apologize. However, do you think you'll be able to grade each season as a whole?
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
I've been keeping track of every episode grade in a word document, so I imagine when I'm done, I'll be able to do a detailed grade of each season. I've also been creating a master episode/movie/book list for Babylon 5 in both chronological and best viewing order as I've been going along, so when I'm all done, I'll have that as well I suppose.

Edit: I've averaged out season one, with some generous rounding, resulting in a grade of 84.3% -- B.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Season One: 84.3% -- B*
Season Two: 89.3% -- B+
Season Three: 93.0% -- A
Season Four: 92.5% -- A**

*Includes "The Gathering"
**Includes "Thirdspace"

I've always ranked the seasons 3-4-2-5-1; I think when I'm finished with season five, my rankings will support those. On the other hand, on second viewing, I think I may be more satisfied with one and less with five, and see them switch.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

The first time I saw this episode, I said this:

Hirogen Alpha said:
"The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari"
This episode was okay--I certainly liked it for the Londo/G'Kar interaction-- but it seemed like it wasn't really anything we haven't seen before. Lennier's departure was interesting, although not entirely unexpected given the events that have led up to this point. Hopefully he will return before too long.

...And for the life of me, I don't know what the hell I was thinking. This episode was excellent. The camerawork, Sheridan's wardrobe changes, and other touches made Londo's visions/dreams/whatever very special. The acting from all around was very good. And Lennier's departure was a very sad moment. I remember feeling very upset as to the way he was written in his final episodes, but everything was spot on here. If I had any complaint, it would be the way Bruce Boxleitner portrays the real Sheridan in this episode. Could the character really be so oblivious to Delenn and Lennier? And would he have such a shit-eating grin on his face at this point? We haven't seen him smile like that since early in season two. Still, a minor complaint.

Grade: A
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

It looks like I really will be starting work tomorrow, so this will probably be the last review from me for a while.

"The Paragon of Animals"

When I first saw this episode, I lamented the alliance not being as exciting as what had come before, but on second viewing, I find my opinion reversed. The intrigue with the Drazi and the creation of the Telepath Colony (and use as spies) was interesting, and far more complex than what we started out with. Byron isn't insufferable in his encounter with Garibaldi, either--in fact, I think the scene is quite good. Also quite good is G'Kar's reading of the Declaration of Principals, although every time it switched back to Boxletiner's recitation of it I was disappointed--Katsulas delivered the lines with much more grace. At least the character of Sheridan acknowledges this point.

There were some disappointing things with this episode, though, mainly with Byron. Byron's scenes with Lyta are painfully overacted and poorly written. I still find Byron's look to be ludicrous. For years everyone in down below has been depicted as dirty looking, and suddenly these unemployed telepath refugees look like they wash their hair every 45 minutes-- I don't buy it. The other thing that disappoints me is the way this arc is headed. Sheridan explains in the beginning that a conflict between telepaths and normals is coming, and soon, so it makes sense to keep these telepaths onboard the station in their back pocket. But no conflict as such will ever arise during this season. Byron will just have a dozen more painful monologues, escape from the Psi Corp a few times, and then blow himself and most of his followers out of existence. If JMS really wanted to thrust Lyta down a new path, I really think he could have found a more economical way than this mostly painful 12 episode arc, and perhaps he could have offered more payoff. Nobody's story ever ends on Babylon 5, but Lyta doesn't even get a resolution that satisfies me at all, and that's a shame.

Grade: B
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hey guys

Love the thread. Babylon 5 was, what made me a trek fan some years down the road. So i love what you're doing in this thread. I've only just finally gotten my 'complete universe' box set, so i'm lagging somewhat behind (just started season 2)

Anyway i thought i'd mention that the trailer for 'The Lost Tales' has just gone up, on the Official Babylon 5 site

Trailer looks great. It has that Babylon 5 'feel' to it.

Regards

Jonz
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

And welcome to the thread! I am always encouraged when I find people who know they can enjoy B5 as well as DS9. :)

Everyone.... many of you helped me by filling out a Family Feud survey for a B5 game we called "Drazi Wars" at Marcon. AS part of that I did promise to post the results. I just started a thread about it here.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Well, even with work and volunteering at the theatre on weekends, I still managed to sneak another Babylon 5 episode under my belt. I must be addicted or something. ;)

"A View from the Gallery"

I liked this episode. I didn't love it--it has some problems--but I liked it. That said, I can't help but feel that it should have been about something else. We've never seen Bo or Mack before, and we won't see them again. Somehow I would have cared more if the episode were about Corwin, or another character that often appears but is seldom used. But beyond that, I think the episode should have been mainly focused on Lochley. We see bits and pieces of what could have been-- Mack (or is it Bo--I must admit I don't remember) tells Lochley she's "okay" in his book and Sheridan slowly but surely adjusting to Lochley and not him in command. I think if I had my way, the show would have been about Lochley and Corwin, the former because she needs an episode where she starts to fit into things, and the latter because he's been so neglected (only appearing in season four once!).

But, if wishes were horses, right... The episode as it stands is still fun. The worst part is easily the Byron scene, which is just written and acted with a heavy hand, as Byron usually is. His arc continues to disappoint. The rest is good, besides my gripe as to the central characters who are fun by ultimately, meaningless in the scheme of things.

Grade: B
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Not to double post... again... but Deep Discount is having their annual sale, and I'm using it to pick up the missing pieces in my Babylon 5 collection (both books and DVDs). All the DVDs are there, but the books or not. I can't seem to find the following three Babylon 5 novels (anywhere in fact) for a reasonable price:

Summoning Light (Techno-Mages II)
Casting Shadows (Techno-Mages I)
Out of the Darkness (Legions of Fire III)

So, my question is, does anybody have a lead on any or all of these books? I figure I'll check the local used book shops, but that could as easily be a lucky find as it could be a dead end. Thanks, of course, in advance!
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

eBay and resale book shops have been my best resource for things like that. I've had copies of each since they were first released, but have since bought a few for other people.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:
eBay and resale book shops have been my best resource for things like that. I've had copies of each since they were first released, but have since bought a few for other people.

Thanks, Neroon.

I managed to find Book One of the Techno-Mage series on half.com right after you mentioned ebay. I'll be on the look for the other two books I need at used book shops.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I can't recommend that Technomage Trilogy enough!

Incidentally, the author of those books - Jeanne Cavelos - was a part of the "Star Wars Tech" special that aired on the History Channel the other night.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
If only I got the history channel... Hell, I still don't get the sci-fi channel.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

It's been a while again, but I've managed to get through two more episodes, and reach the half-way point of the Legions of Fire novel trilogy...

"Learning Curve"
The idea of this problem is a good one, but the execution is flat. On the plus side, this episode is entirely Byron-free, although the telepaths still make a non-speaking appearance. The problem here is that the script, acting, and direction are awfully weak, especially for this series. The older actors who play the Ranger instructors are good, but the younger actors who play the rangers in training leave much to be desired. It seems that this is a jumping off point for the Legend of the Rangers spin-off that never materialized beyond the pilot movie--which doesn't give me high hopes for that adventure. The writing in this episode is equally heavy handed, made perfectly clear in Lochley and Garibaldi's overly dramatic confrontation. Finally, the direction (and camera work) are weak. The final confrontation between the Rangers and the racketeers should be dramatic, but it's so poorly executed that its cheesy and unbelievable. It doesn't help that the head bad guy is written as a complete idiot--in fact, he's such a moron that I have a hard time believing he could rise to power in the first place.

Grade: C

"Strange Relations"
Bester arrives in what is probably the first decent episode in the telepath arc, yet I'd hardly call it a good episode. Byron gives Lyta an awful monologue that somehow moves her (unbelievable). The woeful miscasting of the actor playing Byron becomes fully clear at the end of the episode, when Bester confronts him. Where these should be equals of charisma and intelligence (Zack calls Byron charismatic, but I certainly don't see it happen on screen) what we end up with on screen is Walter Koenig playing his character with brilliant menace and RAD looking like a wounded child. Finally, Garibaldi's confrontation with Bester seems half-assed and out of character. He charges in, but without the means to carry out his vengeance, and he does it in full view of Lochley. Garibaldi is smarter than that. Still, every second Bester is on screen is a great moment. G'Kar, Delenn, Londo, and Franklin also have plenty of wonderful moments that elevate this episode above the crap that is Byron who spends an awful long time talking about his willow or some-such. Not to mention the horrid, horrid singing at the end. The telepath arc is a complete bust here.

Grade: B

Legions of Fire: Book One
I really like this series so far, though I do have a couple of complaints with the first book (minor really) as well as one complaint that probably has more to do with the techno-mages in general than just how they are portrayed here. First, as I complained about in the general sci-fi forum, the dates in the first book are annoyingly wrong. Babylon 5 has very tight continuity, so I'm going to whine about these (I know, poor translation from Centauri to English, right...). Secondly, I think Peter David takes Vir a little overboard sometimes, as occasionally happened in the series. He's a little too much of a bafoon for too long in certain scenes, but that's probably just my tastes. Everything else about this book is great, and I've enjoyed the little details leading up to Crusade (which I will be getting to shortly).

Grade: A-

My big complaint, though, is about the techno-mages. It seems like there is little that is not within their grasp. The first book (and the first half of the second) go to great lengths to try and humanize and bring down the techno-mages to our level, but I can't help but feel that they're always going to be a sort of deus ex machina whenever our characters are caught in an unwinnable situation, appearing out of thin air and saving the day at a moment's notice. Kind of like the Prometheus/Odyssey/whatever on Stargate in an odd sort of way... our heroes are stuck--beam them out!
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
My big complaint, though, is about the techno-mages. It seems like there is little that is not within their grasp. The first book (and the first half of the second) go to great lengths to try and humanize and bring down the techno-mages to our level, but I can't help but feel that they're always going to be a sort of deus ex machina whenever our characters are caught in an unwinnable situation, appearing out of thin air and saving the day at a moment's notice. Kind of like the Prometheus/Odyssey/whatever on Stargate in an odd sort of way... our heroes are stuck--beam them out!

The vibe I get from much of the post-Season 5 B5 Universe is that the Technomages fill a similar role in the story to that of the Vorlons during Seasons 1-3 of the original series. (While the Drakh are sorta fulfilling the role of the Shadows.) Obviously, that analogy breaks down in a number of ways, but there are a number of places in Crusade (and the Legions of Fire books, and maybe in The Lost Tales as well) where it seems like Galen is sort of a successor to Kosh: pushing our heroes onto a path that will foil the bad guys or solve whatever problem they're up against *his* way, while not revealing too many of his own secrets, and also largely holding back in using his own power to intervene, but sometimes doing so in a way that could be considered deus ex machina.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Galen is definitely the successor to Kosh. I can accept him in that role, as long as he doesn't intervene on every occasion where it is convenient for him to do so. Reading the rest of the second Legions of Fire book, I like the way the techno-mages are being treated...

"Legions of Fire: Book Two"
The timeline problems of the first book are gone, so no fanboy whining this time around... well, okay, fanboy whining, but of a different sort. Suffice it to say, I really liked this trilogy, but I'm not going to waste time heaping praise upon it. Every Babylon 5 fan should read this trilogy-- enough said.

Well, perhaps not enough. Lou Welch, who Neroon promised would have his fate revealed all the way back when I saw GROPOS for the second time, suffers from Joe Carey syndrome. They explain away his (long absence), thrust him into the middle of things, and then quickly kill him off. I wish he had had a larger role to play before being offed. Oh well... at least his back-story was filled out.

Secondly, G'Kar mentions in one off-hand comment that he has been spending a lot of time with Lyta Alexander lately. Now, it hasn't exactly been said on screen anywhere, but I've always been under the impression that Lyta buys the farm during the telepath wars, which according to Vir, happened earlier than G'Kar's visit to Centauri Prime. I'm specifically looking at page 226 here. Are there any details about the telepath war waiting somewhere (perhaps in the Psi Corp books I have yet to read)?

Grade: A-
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

The Psi Corps books maddeningly avoid the timeframe of the Telepath War. The third book takes place many years *after* the war, so there are *some* hints about what the war was all about and how it turned out, but the focus is pretty squarely on Bester and the personal impact it had on him.

Crusade, which takes place a couple of years after the war, does delve into it a little more, and gets a bit more into what the overall fallout of the conflict was for the status of telepaths in the EA. But there is still scant explanation of how it started, how it was fought, or what it was really *about*. It's possible that JMS intended to tell the tale of the Telepath War via flashbacks in Crusade, but the more widely held theory is that it was the intended story for a B5 feature film, should one be greenlit. It looks like a story that could easily include most of the original cast, and JMS seems to have carefully "written around it" with the rest of the B5 timeline.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Maybe he'll finally realize that a feature will probably never happen and go ahead and tell the story with the Lost Tales before we lose another member of the B5 family.

“Secrets of the Soul”

Bester isn’t in this episode, which immediately drops it in grade. RAD as Byron simply cannot carry a telepath story on his own. At best, he’s an okay actor, who can do good when the material is good. When the material is long-winded, pretentious, and clichéd like it is in this case, he can’t even make it okay. The only point where he shines is the end of the episode, but even that isn’t the climax it should be (no pun intended—was this sex scene really necessary?). We learned that the Vorlons created the telepaths all the way back in the season three finale, and it had been suggested before then. How this is news to Byron (who, despite continuing to be described as a charismatic leader continues to be anything but—maybe its his fancy hair [how does it stay so fine down below] that garners him so many followers) eludes me. It’s certainly not news to the audience. Dr. Franklin’s story is a little better (with a good teaser with the Pak’mara), but its hampered by bad acting as well. The actress who plays the alien’s aide is woefully bad, and it wounds this stories punch as well. Finally, neither Londo nor G’Kar appear in this episode, which hurts it even further.

Grade: C
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"In the Kingdom of the Blind"

I hate the telepath arc. I really do. But I think it all comes together in this episode. I wish it had all come together sooner. Byron here is barely holding together an alliance of telepaths. He is not the ultra-charismatic leader we have been so often told. He is human; he is frightened constantly. With the true nature of telepaths revealed, he tries to force the issue and have the alliance give them a colony world. Sheridan wants to comply, but the ambassadors make it clear that they want the telepaths arrested. I wish this point had been made clearer, because I don't buy Sheridan ordering the arrest of Byron and his people unless he's being backed into a corner by the members of the Alliance. Byron says as much, but it never feels like Sheridan is completely without choice to me. By all accounts, the telepaths deserve a colony world, and if they're really are planets lying around, I don't understand why they aren't given one. What better way to end this problem than to send it far away?

Meanwhile, on Centauri Prime, Londo begins to suspect there is a growing darkness there. The acting on all accounts is superb by the number of players here. It's a shame most of them are dead by the end of the episode, but I suppose it is necessary. And that shot of Shiv'kala the Drakh in the darkness is wonderful and creepy (though I wonder why the old Drakh make-up shows up earlier in the episode--I though JMS didn't like that version, thus the reason it was shrouded digitally in "Lines of Communication" last season).

Grade: A
 
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