Maybe it's like "Puella Magi Madoka Magica"I agree with you, there is nothing at all to suggest that it was susperia as kes.
And i liken the idea of the time traveling multiple times
My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
Saying someone liked fury is not a personal attack 
This is an interesting idea.
There is a Voyager novel. It may be one of the Dark Matters trilogy. There is a non corporeal life form that is revisiting places Voyager had been that you don't realize that it is Kes right at first. Some of the places/people I recall were mentioned were her seeing Seska and Cullah's child as he was growing up in the Kazon Nistrim sect. She saw a planet they had visited before her transformation (but it was a planet only mentioned in one of the other novels called Marooned written by the same author).
At one point she says she wants to go home, meaning back to Voyager. And another energy being she had encountered told her she would only frighten them because of what happened in Fury. And how she was from a different dimension.
Does this book description sound familiar or is it possibly from another novel like String Theory? And did I see another post saying they encounter Kes in one of the re-launch books?
Yes this was in the dark matter series i think.
What they never explained in Fury is why Kes was back in corporeal form again. Absolutely no mention of the fact, despite Kes having transformed into a non-corporeal life-form in The Gift.
Well, I have stated that many times and I have pointed out the many flaws in that insulting, crappy excuse for a Star Trek episode over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
But every time I do that, I run into those who hates the character who constantly slaps that stupid "canon" in my face, each and every contribution I make is slagged off and when that isn't enough, then I get personally attacked and then I finally lose my temper and strikes back, then I'm labeled as the bad guy who disturbs the peace.
So I don't care. The witch is dead, humiliated, ridiculed and finally destroyed which obviously was the ultimate high spot of the show. The worthless actress with that horrible scream is gone too, not in the business anymore and the world is such a better place.
So why debate? Let's have a sing-a -long instead! Or as The Clown said "Celebration, Celebration!"
But every time I do that, I run into those who hates the character who constantly slaps that stupid "canon" in my face, each and every contribution I make is slagged off and when that isn't enough, then I get personally attacked and then I finally lose my temper and strikes back, then I'm labeled as the bad guy who disturbs the peace.
So I don't care. The witch is dead, humiliated, ridiculed and finally destroyed which obviously was the ultimate high spot of the show. The worthless actress with that horrible scream is gone too, not in the business anymore and the world is such a better place.
So why debate? Let's have a sing-a -long instead! Or as The Clown said "Celebration, Celebration!"
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I assumed she took physical form so she could follow through with her plan to attack voyager. I figured it was just something within her abilities
In my head canon she went back to her homeworld to see what happened to her people and try to help
Saying someone liked fury is not a personal attack
I mostly liked Fury. Not the best by any means, but the opening is awesome.
I just figured she had reached the point where she was like The Q. She was capable of both, but needed to be corporeal to interact with our plane of existence.
Agreed. It's not the best but far from the worst. The opening was indeed pretty cool
Liking Fury is not a personal attack.
Well, I have stated that many times and I have pointed out the many flaws in that insulting, crappy excuse for a Star Trek episode over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
But every time I do that, I run into those who hates the character who constantly slaps that stupid "canon" in my face, each and every contribution I make is slagged off and when that isn't enough, then I get personally attacked and then I finally lose my temper and strikes back, then I'm labeled as the bad guy who disturbs the peace.
So I don't care. The witch is dead, humiliated, ridiculed and finally destroyed which obviously was the ultimate high spot of the show. The worthless actress with that horrible scream is gone too, not in the business anymore and the world is such a better place.
So why debate? Let's have a sing-a -long instead! Or as The Clown said "Celebration, Celebration!"
This is just weird. You're not rational enough to debate with.
I remember wanting to see 'Fury' BECAUSE we would get to see Kes again. Yet it was like going back to a place you cannot return to easily and that aspect showed in the writing, I feel, though the acting was good and as some have said, there was some good dramatic moments. Like visuals. I rather enjoyed the Janeway/Tuvok opening scene too..Well, I have stated that many times and I have pointed out the many flaws in that insulting, crappy excuse for a Star Trek episode over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
But every time I do that, I run into those who hates the character who constantly slaps that stupid "canon" in my face, each and every contribution I make is slagged off and when that isn't enough, then I get personally attacked and then I finally lose my temper and strikes back, then I'm labeled as the bad guy who disturbs the peace.
So I don't care. The witch is dead, humiliated, ridiculed and finally destroyed which obviously was the ultimate high spot of the show. The worthless actress with that horrible scream is gone too, not in the business anymore and the world is such a better place.
So why debate? Let's have a sing-a -long instead! Or as The Clown said "Celebration, Celebration!"
I didn't get why Kes had the short hair. That bugs me to this day, lol. I also found it implausible that she had so much power in The Gift that was impossible to be contained, yet Janeway was able to subdue her in Fury. It was messy. It also was unflattering in other ways. It is just as plausible given 'Before and After' to view Fury with that type of filter. The time jumping in Fury alone opened that door.
Honestly I like to think Kes lived longer, attained even more power as was her potential and found new adventure.
Have any of you ever read the fanfictions written by Voyager Season 7.5? There is one of the later ones (there are 30 or 40 altogether I think), that has Kes trying to help her people find a new homeworld after she returns there in Fury? It's called Altruistic Motives. The entire series is about Voyager getting home in a different way. Endgame is ignored. And then they return to the DQ later with some other ships also fitted with slipstream drive. And they encounter Kes again and help her and her people.
So much for that excuse.
And I could actually regard the comment about "not rational enough" as a personal insult too.
But why argue? The witch is dead, ruined and humiliated so let us be happy and embrace it with energy and enthusiasm.
Celebrations!
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I got a few more thoughts on "Fury." If we went with my idea that their is 2 versions of Kes then I kind of like the idea that Godlike Kes might actually help the old and defeated Kes we see at the end find meaning in her life. Maybe she even helps her evolve again only this time she is ready for it.
One sad thing people don't talk about much is it is possible that the "Voyager" we watched from season 1 to 6 ends in this episode and it ends with both Kes leaving it for a alternate timeline but with Torres dead.
I find it weird that when Kes disapears from the present day we still see another scene on the ship were we see everyone's reaction to what has just happened on the bridge which means this timeline with Torres being dead must have continued to go on even after we no longer see it again. It also opens up the idea that in this timeline the Borg kids might not be rescued and Seven will die in about a year when her Cortical Node breaks down and their isn't a Icheb their to save her.
Jason
One sad thing people don't talk about much is it is possible that the "Voyager" we watched from season 1 to 6 ends in this episode and it ends with both Kes leaving it for a alternate timeline but with Torres dead.
I find it weird that when Kes disapears from the present day we still see another scene on the ship were we see everyone's reaction to what has just happened on the bridge which means this timeline with Torres being dead must have continued to go on even after we no longer see it again. It also opens up the idea that in this timeline the Borg kids might not be rescued and Seven will die in about a year when her Cortical Node breaks down and their isn't a Icheb their to save her.
Jason
Well, you can always read my awful fanfiction. It's on the Kes Website.
I remember that I did feel a certain enthusiasm when the rumors came out about a return of Kes. In fact, after not watching the series for two years (the result of the events in "The Gift") I actually started watching it again, spending a considerable sum of money on borrowing VHS tapes with the season 4 and season 5 episodes to catch up with what I have missed. Some episodes into season 6 I had done that and could watch the episodes as they were aired again.
I was also happy that an ongoing letter and mail campaign for having Kes re-instated as a main character had given some result.
Well, I was in for a big dissapointment, wasn't I?
Fortunately, I was warned by some friends in the US who had watched the episode what to expect when the epsisode was aired where I live about half a year after it had been aired in the US.
But it was still a shock to watch that horrible, insulting crap. Only sheer greed (TV:s are expensive) and some concern for the people on the street below prevented me from throwing out the TV from the window that day.
I also saw, and still see it as a downright insult from those in charge against those who have started the letter campaign and us who participated in it. That episode was the reply we got from Berman and his gang.
As for your questions about certain things in the episode, well the episode is so full of contradictions that it looks like it have been written by someone who haven't watched a single episode of the series.
I must also say that I don't care at all about the visual effects which Braga and Fuller came up with. I prefer good written stories instead of effects.
The whole episode was an insulting piece of crap. The worst episode ever in any TV series.
Tracy Trek wrote:
No, I haven't.
And honestly, I don't think I will either since there are too much reference to the insulting crap episode in it.
I think that the only who could help the Ocampa are Tanis and the people at Suspiria's array.
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Maybe.
But they could protect the Ocampa on the planet from the Kazon and prolong their lifespans as well.
However, in the book "Caretaker" which is written after thr script for the episode, it is stated that The Caretaker downloaded all his knowledge to the Ocampa shortly before he died so maybe they could do all those things themselves, without any help from Tanis and his people.
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