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My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."

Completely agree. It was a unique thing for trek to have a short lifespan and it could have been good drama and character development to see her dealing with her aging and to see everyone else deal with it. Though i disagree about them looking for ways to slow her aging. I can see kes refusing any attempt as it is going against the natural course.

That, and you change as you age. The exact same situation will be experienced differently by a teenager, to what it would by someone in middle age.

Kes's goal was to experience as much of life as she could. Eternally clinging to late-adolescence (which sounds like hell anyway) would cut her off from from a lot of that.
 
That, and you change as you age. The exact same situation will be experienced differently by a teenager, to what it would by someone in middle age.

Kes's goal was to experience as much of life as she could. Eternally clinging to late-adolescence (which sounds like hell anyway) would cut her off from from a lot of that.
I think this is also a factor in Fury. Being older and wiser maybe she looked back and thought that being a teenager and running off with the first guy who came along might not have been the best idea
 
::realises she was always going to naturally grow to be both omniscient and omnipotent::

Kes: ...You mean I never had to fuck a jabbering bipedal porcupine?!

::Fury ensues::
 
Yep. It's impossible to discuss Kes here - you get all mopey with the "'who, li'l ol' me?" shtick and the accusations of hatred and sinister motives. Quit clutching your pearls and engage with people on the facts - the canonical version of Kes we saw onscreen, not the re-imagined, re-written one you created in your head and your awful fanfiction.

I've suffered deaths in my immediate family too. Kes' lifespan has no impact on me - not least because the character understood it better than any of us. Or did you miss Before and After? Or was that 'Suspiria in disguise' as well? Kes, to me, is a positive affirmation of a simple truth of our existence - that our time is finite, and we should embrace it with the energy and enthusiasm that she did.

One final thing: I think it's particularly disappointing to invoke unknowable personal tragedy to shut down sensible debate. I'm sorry you felt the need to do that. :thumbdown:
You just have to make this personal, don't you? :shrug:

OK then, I expressed my personal number one reason why I don't like long outdrawn death dramas and tear-wrenching episodes. Since this is a debate forum, I do think that I have the right to do so.

I have also presented another solution in the Kes case since, according to your beloved "canonical version" it was possible to prolong her lifespan.

I have also stated why I find the nine year lifespan silly, unnecessary and unrealistic. Since this is a debate forum, I do think that I have the right to do so.

It also strikes me that most of the people who would have liked to see Kes getting old and die in some episode and who vehemently defends the short lifespan are the same people who several times express their dislike and loathing of the character.

As for Berman's, Braga's, Taylo's and Fuller's "canon", you can't possibly imagine that I would accept the events in that s**t episode in season 6, do you? :lol:

As for "Before And After", I've watched that episode several times and I have actually discovered that the events in that episode takes place in an alternate reality which had no effect on later episodes of the series.

As for deaths, I don't "embrace it with the energy and enthusiasm" because I've already seen too many good people die during my lifetime, some of them too early. As for my own inevitable death in some bleak future, I don't care. When it happens, it happens. I live for today and try my best to avoid worrying about tomorrow.

As for my "awful fanfiction, I take that comment as a compliment! :beer:
I write for the fans of Kes, not for those who hate the character.
 
Which one?
And how?
Actually; I would have liked to see her as a permanent character in those books, a crewmember or so.
She's in The Eternal Tide. If you want to know how then read the book. Though it's very connected to the previous books so you would want to read those first.

But something tells me you wouldn't be really happy with anything short of Kes being the captain and the only character focused on. :lol:
 
She's in The Eternal Tide. If you want to know how then read the book. Though it's very connected to the previous books so you would want to read those first.

But something tells me you wouldn't be really happy with anything short of Kes being the captain and the only character focused on. :lol:
I might take a look at that book!

As for Kes as captain, why not?
I think that she could do a good job.
But honestly, I would be happy if she had a similar position as she had on Voyager.
 
I might take a look at that book!

As for Kes as captain, why not?
I think that she could do a good job.
But honestly, I would be happy if she had a similar position as she had on Voyager.
I have no doubt that you think she would be the best captain ever lol

Even though starfleet captains have to go to the academy for four years, work their way up the ranks, go to command school, pass a rigorous test and have the head to command people and to make difficult decisions that can lead to many people potentially dying. I'm sure Kes with less than 10 years of life experience would have no problem with that ;)
 
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I wonder if how we value life quality by a number of years is how a Vulcan sees a human? You don't see Tuvok looking at Janeway as being lesser because she paces her life experiences within say eighty years rather than two hundred. Same with the Doctor. It's hard relate to someone like an Ocampa because they live dog years but they live those years with what seems to be an advanced intuition and absorb knowledge and experience at an accelerated rate (to us). They also have abilities we do not and never will have. Kes learned her medical texts from the Doctor voraciously. I'm not saying she should have been Captain but she was capable of getting up to speed, just in a different manner than how human boundaries have set us.
 
I wonder if how we value life quality by a number of years is how a Vulcan sees a human? You don't see Tuvok looking at Janeway as being lesser because she paces her life experiences within say eighty years rather than two hundred. Same with the Doctor. It's hard relate to someone like an Ocampa because they live dog years but they live those years with what seems to be an advanced intuition and absorb knowledge and experience at an accelerated rate (to us). They also have abilities we do not and never will have. Kes learned her medical texts from the Doctor voraciously. I'm not saying she should have been Captain but she was capable of getting up to speed, just in a different manner than how human boundaries have set us.
She became a medical assistant not a full doctor. Tom did the same thing. She studied and remembered things, not exactly unique.

Tuvok does not look down on Janeway but it has been established in previous trek that Vulcan do in fact look down on humans for the most part
 
I think you might be selling her learning abilities short. Unlike Tom she had a different rate to her learning that fitted with how her species developed.. on Voyager that was unique. In my opinion she left Tom for dust as an assistant and was more than capable of furthering her studies if she had had the opportunity. Her capacity was different than a humans, not even factoring in the whole telepathic angle. Ocampas pack a lot of life in 'our' years, though it amuses me that they refer to the same time frame. Like calling it a year. That, like the universal translator is always something you kind of roll with.
 
I think you might be selling her learning abilities short. Unlike Tom she had a different rate to her learning that fitted with how her species developed.. on Voyager that was unique. In my opinion she left Tom for dust as an assistant and was more than capable of furthering her studies if she had had the opportunity. Her capacity was different than a humans, not even factoring in the whole telepathic angle. Ocampas pack a lot of life in 'our' years, though it amuses me that they refer to the same time frame. Like calling it a year. That, like the universal translator is always something you kind of roll with.
We saw her do some studying and then assist the doctor. She never did much more than hand him hyposprays. We did see Tom assist in complex medical procedures and even do things on his own. His medical knowledge appeared to be greater than Kes's.
 
When the Doctor was losing his 'memory' she was telling him what to do. Or am Iosing my memory, lol.

I still don't see that Kes should be compared to the rates of development and learning in human terms, when she wasn't a human. Ocampas learn differently, pack more in to their 'years'.
 
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