My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."

[stardream]

I guess I'm the only one who prefers a chubby guy

That's not the problem. The problem is the powers that be coming down so much hard on the women for a little weight gain.Why not allow the women to be a little chubby? Kate Mulgrew had to wear a girdle and she was a tiny little thing....

 

[Sophie74656]

Its all about being on camera. A girdle also creates smooth lines which was important for trek. And the notion of women needing to be slim is not exclusive to trek. However the interesting thing is that the people have become slimmer over the years. I was rewatching a show from the 90s and while the female lead was by no way chubby (and half of my size) by todays standards she would be considered heavy.

The camera also does add weight. I remember meeting an actor at a convention from BSG and being shocked at how slim he was in real life. The show was still airing new episodes at the time so it was clear the difference between in person and on camera

 

[at Quark's]

And the notion of women needing to be slim is not exclusive to trek. However the interesting thing is that the people have become slimmer over the years. I was rewatching a show from the 90s and while the female lead was by no way chubby (and half of my size) by todays standards she would be considered heavy.

That. Given that our society seems obsessed with 'beauty ideals', even to the point that this pressure causes a lot of teenage girls to develop eating disorders, why single out trek on this? Though it would have been nice if they had taken an active stance on this, instead of just going with the flow ...

 

[Six of Twelve]

I guess I'm the only one who prefers a chubby guy

I didn't pass any judgement on these actors' body sizes, but was just making observations and noting the double standard expected of female and male actors.

Gates McFadden, in particular, looked almost anorexic to me.

 

[stardream]

That. Given that our society seems obsessed with 'beauty ideals', even to the point that this pressure causes a lot of teenage girls to develop eating disorders, why single out trek on this? Though it would have been nice if they had taken an active stance on this, instead of just going with the flow ...

There have been similar discussions on the Doctor Who board and I remember some discussions that were mostly jokes about the women on LOST. How come the men were unshaven and rough looking but apart from the occasional ponytail the women still managed to look good...and were apparently hoarding the razors away from the men.

 

[fireproof78]

There have been similar discussions on the Doctor Who board and I remember some discussions that were mostly jokes about the women on LOST. How come the men were unshaven and rough looking but apart from the occasional ponytail the women still managed to look good...and were apparently hoarding the razors away from the men.

Razors and make up first!

The Lost Island also had powers to make the men more rugged and the women always pretty.

 

[Sophie74656]

Anyone watch walking dead? I remember when a character was dying there was a shot of her feet and everyone was loosing their minds over her perfect pedicure

 

[Lynx]

Anyone watch walking dead? I remember when a character was dying there was a shot of her feet and everyone was loosing their minds over her perfect pedicure

Maybe someone out there is specialized at perfect zombie pedicure!

 

[stardream]

Razors and make up first!

The Lost Island also had powers to make the men more rugged and the women always pretty.

I remember someone on the production staff saying something along the lines that no one wanted to see unmade up hairy women and the general response from the fans was 'we don't care'.

Reminds me of those old westerns where the heroines could have been chased by Indians, dragged by a horse through the mud and undergo all sorts of physical trials but somehow her hair was always perfect at the end of the day...and I always wondered how some of them got their hair that color in the old west.

 

[fireproof78]

I remember someone on the production staff saying something along the lines that no one wanted to see unmade up hairy women and the general response from the fans was 'we don't care'.

Reminds me of those old westerns where the heroines could have been chased by Indians, dragged by a horse through the mud and undergo all sorts of physical trials but somehow her hair was always perfect at the end of the day...and I always wondered how some of them got their hair that color in the old west.

I think its a trend in Hollywood that will take forever to go away, even if the audience doesn't care.

I mean, how dare they look like real people!

 

[Jayson1]

To me it's not about being sexy but being unrealistic sexy. Since "Lost" has been brought up I think they did a okay job with Kate because she seemed to just wear a normal t shirt most of the time, though I got to admit I wonder why people would still be wearing underwear and brawls which would happen when she would have sex with one of her 2 boyfriends.
What I didn't buy is Juliet showing clevage or Sun in a bathing suit. In fact I almost never buy into someone showing clevage because I just don't seen many woman do that in real life unless they might be going out to a party or something.

Jason

 

[JasonJ]

The most grating thing about Kes that I did not enjoy: that horrendous scream. It was atrocious yet blood curdling at the same time. It was just awkward. I do wish that the character was able to give more to the crew and the story.

 

[Sophie74656]

The most grating thing about Kes that I did not enjoy: that horrendous scream. It was atrocious yet blood curdling at the same time. It was just awkward. I do wish that the character was able to give more to the crew and the story.

I completely agree. I know a lot of people like it but I do not like her voice in general.

 

[fireproof78]

The most grating thing about Kes that I did not enjoy: that horrendous scream. It was atrocious yet blood curdling at the same time. It was just awkward. I do wish that the character was able to give more to the crew and the story.

I think the scream/screech was super edited in post, because nothing about it sounds natural.

 

[Prax]

When is this scream?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm pretty sure its in "Cold Fire." I refuse to look it up though because it is so bad.

 

[Lynx]

The most grating thing about Kes that I did not enjoy: that horrendous scream. It was atrocious yet blood curdling at the same time. It was just awkward. I do wish that the character was able to give more to the crew and the story.

I see nothing wrong with that scream.

I mean, have anyone here ever seen any horror movies? I have seen some with female actresses who have failed totally, making sounds that remaind me more of the mice in a Diesney movie.

Lien did at least sound natural. She did what she was requested to do, coming up with a scream from a very frightened person.

Sophie74656 wrote:

I completely agree. I know a lot of people like it but I do not like her voice in general.

Sorry, but I just have to ask: Is there anything you don't dislike with the character and the actress?

fireproof78 wrote:

I'm pretty sure its in "Cold Fire." I refuse to look it up though because it is so bad.

Are you kidding? "Cold Fire" is the best episode of the whole series!

 

[fireproof78]

I was specifically referring to Kes' screech in the episode. I like the rest, but I skip that part when she tries to melt Tuvok's face. Horror for horror's sake never sits well for me.

 

[Lynx]

I was specifically referring to Kes' screech in the episode. I like the rest, but I skip that part when she tries to melt Tuvok's face. Horror for horror's sake never sits well for me.

I actually have to agree here. The episode had been teriffic even without that scene.

Sometimes I feel the same about scenes when the ship ends up in immediate danger when not necessary and is saved in the last seconds, like in "Tattoo". That scene with the ship being pulled in that cyclon is totally unnecessary and more annoying than exciting. I guess I've seen too many movies with similar scenarios.

 

[Prax]

I never noticed the scream, but I can't look at Tuvok's face.