My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."

[Sophie74656]

COuld you provide an example. This is really interesting.

natural selection occurs on a generational basis. An individual organism doesn't change, a population does. We can observe more dramatic changes in insects (like the peppered moth) and microbial organisms (like antibiotic resistant bacteria) than large animals with long reproductive cycles (like elephants), because of the time it takes for those populations to change.

 

[fireproof78]

natural selection occurs on a generational basis. An individual organism doesn't change, a population does. We can observe more dramatic changes in insects (like the peppered moth) and microbial organisms (like antibiotic resistant bacteria) than large animals with long reproductive cycles (like elephants), because of the time it takes for those populations to change.

Ok, but how does that apply to the Ocampa?

 

[stardream]

To you and YOUR friends, yes. To me and millions of others (both men and women), no. This uptightness about what people wear is prudish nonsense that needs to stop.

I'm proud to be a prude but at the same time, Seven's costume didn't bother me all that much except for the fact that it made me wince thinking about how uncomfortable it must be for her.

 

[fireproof78]

To you and YOUR friends, yes. To me and millions of others (both men and women), no. This uptightness about what people wear is prudish nonsense that needs to stop.

So, I shouldn't object to my friends objectifying a woman?

Please don't presum to read my mind.

I'm proud to be a prude but at the same time, Seven's costume didn't bother me all that much except for the fact that it made me wince thinking about how uncomfortable it must be for her.

Indeed.

I'm just noting differences in the marketing.

 

[Trekkin]

I'm proud to be a prude but at the same time, Seven's costume didn't bother me all that much except for the fact that it made me wince thinking about how uncomfortable it must be for her.

Forget the suit.

Think of the heels.

 

[Sophie74656]

Ok, but how does that apply to the Ocampa?

For them that would mean that compared to a species that has longer lifespans the ocampa would evolve faster since there would be more generations.

 

[Sophie74656]

Forget the suit.

Think of the heels.

Yeah those heels looked uncomfortable but i just find any heels uncomfortable.

Jeri Ryan has spoken about the corset being uncomfortable but she hasn't spoken much about the heels

 

[fireproof78]

For them that would mean that compared to a species that has longer lifespans the ocampa would evolve faster since there would be more generations.

Makes sense though it still raises the question of why their reproduction is so messed up?

 

[stardream]

Yeah those heels looked uncomfortable but i just find any heels uncomfortable.

Jeri Ryan has spoken about the corset being uncomfortable but she hasn't spoken much about the heels

I hope someday high heels will go the way of foot binding.

 

[fireproof78]

I hope someday heels will go the way of foot binding.

Heels are one of the most ridiculous inventions.

 

[Sophie74656]

Makes sense though it still raises the question of why their reproduction is so messed up?

It may not be messed up. My assumption is that either the Caretaker was restricting their reproduction or they had twins or triplets. Kes mentioned she had an uncle so that does happen.

 

[Lynx]

Ok, but how does that apply to the Ocampa?

It doesn't!
Not at all.

 

[Prax]

Not bad. Just different way of positioning the characters, portrayed as more "sexy" than others. So, while Seven was explicitly a sex object in the show, she was in the marketing. And that annoyed me to no end, especially within my circle of friends.

So before I start posting magazine covers, like TV guide, and ST, which show other female trek actresses in similar poses; and conversely, show Seven in "regular girl" poses as you say, you could do yourself a favor and look them up.

 

[Lynx]

I also think Kes was sexy IMO but they didn't do her favors with a really bad wig in season 1. I thought her hair looked better by the time season 2 rolled around but am I the only one who didn't like the long hair and catsuit look? The hair was okay but I liked it when it was shorter but if they wanted to get her out of the skirt I would have liked to see them give her a starfleet uniform. She could have been a non com like O'Brien if they felt to need to justify which they wouldn't since you know there are marquis aboard with no starfleet training at all who had to wear a starfleet uniform.
Jason

I really like her hairdo in seasons 1 and 2.
She looks great in that pixie hair and it is sort of trademark for the character.
She looks good in long hair too but she became more average with that, just one of those TV series blonde.

 

[Prax]

It doesn't!
Not at all.

It does. An Ocampan generation is every 3-5 years.

 

[Lynx]

Not bad. Just different way of positioning the characters, portrayed as more "sexy" than others. So, while Seven was explicitly a sex object in the show, she was in the marketing. And that annoyed me to no end, especially within my circle of friends.

Naughty, naughty fireproof!

You should know that it's very, very naughty and unfair to criticize the catsuit and the marketing of "sexy Seven". You can be severely attacked for that.
Just like kicking a beehive, you can end up with a lot of bees stinging you.

 

[Lynx]

It does. An Ocampan generation is every 3-5 years.

Honestly, I see nothing in all those explanations which explains why a species with such short lifespans could develope into more than primates.

 

[Prax]

Naughty, naughty fireproof!

You should know that it's very, very naughty and unfair to criticize the catsuit and the marketing of "sexy Seven". You can be severely attacked for that.
Just like kicking a beehive, you can end up with a lot of bees stinging you.

More like hypocritical and stretching distinctions. As Seven's catsuit is an item of regular ridicule on this forum, who's doing the stinging?

 

[Prax]

Honestly, I see nothing in all those explanations which explains why a species with such short lifespans could develope into more than primates.

Speaking of hypocritical, are you prepared to go through the list of Trek aliens, and their evolutionary plausibility? Let's start with handlebar faces...

This is a fictional show. A species with a 9 year lifespan is more plausible than transporters and warp speed, replicators and holodecks.

I mean...THIS is the issue that causes your suspension of disbelief to falter??! REALLY?

 

[Six of Twelve]

They may have made Seven look like a bimbo, but she certainly didn't act like one.

And the issue about what female characters wear is that NO male character was ever made to wear outfits that accentuated their anatomy. The catsuits and the high heels emphasize the notion that, before anything else they do, women are there for men to look at and fantasize over. It's one thing what a character chose to wear in her off duty hours, but it's quite another what she wore on duty. Wearing heels on duty is NOT practical, especially for those who spend hours on their feet. Tight fitting catsuits are not practical for those whose duties involve a lot of bending, stooping, climbing, crawling, etc.