MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by nafeasonto, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. mdtauk

    mdtauk Commander Red Shirt

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    I think what we are trying to get across, is that there shouldn't need to be a debate about it with the Admins, and there is no reason to remove Genders, or change the current Adira page, which lists them as non-binary.

    The fact the admin staff are planning to remove Gender from all pages, seems like a hyperbolic response to some admin staff not wanting to acknowledge Adira being non-binary, or anything other than Male or Female being a valid gender.
     
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  2. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    'I was only following orders!' :lol:
     
  3. Renegade54

    Renegade54 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    What leniency is that?
     
  4. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    Throwing the toys out of the pram. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And other selected analogies.
     
  5. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    There was a similar instance I found back-tracking during a discussion over in TrekLit on the provenance of referring to the Mirror Universe counterpart of the Federation as the "Terran Empire," where the MA article on the Empire called it the "Terran Empire" from when it was first created, several months to a year before "In a Mirror, Darkly," aired, which was the first on-screen use of the term (before that, it was just "the Empire"). In that case, we figured "Terran Empire" was actually first used in one of the Shatnerverse novels some years earlier, and it was probably used in ENT because the books' co-/ghost-writers, the Reeves-Stevenses, were part of the writing staff on Enterprise's fourth season, and it was probably used on MA because everything was harder then with DVDs being expensive and streaming and transcript sites being nonexistent so it wasn't easy to fact-check like it is today.

    I'd guess the "Great Houses" thing was a similar case of both MA and the show's writers pulling from official but noncanon sources, given all the other Klingon lore pulled from novels in DSC's first season. It'd be interesting to know if there ever was a case of something on MA that was non-canon or fanon that was unknowingly referenced in a show or movie just because it was the MA article. I know that sort of thing happens all the time with behind-the-scenes Star Trek legends, but I'm not sure if it ever happened in-universe.
     
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  6. Renegade54

    Renegade54 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Yeah, I dunno where that 24 originally came from... well, it came from the editor of the original page, but I don't know where *that* person got if from. Again, the rules were much looser back in 2004, and if you look at the page when it was created... there are no references whatsoever. *That* policy has gotten much more strict as well. We're currently working on a citation change that would include the act in addition to the episode to further narrow down the reference... kinda like a page number in a book citation. Ideally it would be a timing rather than just the act number, but the timings differ in different formats.

    You noticed it and got it removed back in 2017, I see. :)
     
  7. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Only for it to get re-added a few weeks later when Discovery aired heh. Still.
     
  8. Renegade54

    Renegade54 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Don't be an ass. It's not *my* wiki, and I'm not following anyone's orders.
     
  9. Spike730

    Spike730 Captain Captain

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  10. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    Few things, 1. Does nobody else find it gross how "secondary sex characteristics" are being brought up in regards to a minor(age) character? Just feels inappropriate to me. 2. What's the relevance? Once again did any other characters have their "biological sex" brought up regrading their identity? 3. How long should we expect in terms of MA updating its policy? and 4. I think this speaks to the lack of trans & nonbinary ppl on the mod team, our insights regrading this issue probably wouldve saved alot of drama involved in this.
    Why aren't actors acceptable resource? And can't they be in this case since Adira being Nonbinary is big thing for trek, why start demanding all this extra info now?
    Being a volunteer goes both ways, don't like when we criticize your policies? don't volunteer nobody forced you to make an account and respond to us. And I'm grateful that you've decided to respond to us, but these responses still speak problems mainly regards to MA policy and how it's enforced
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  11. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    How rude! I'd have expected better from a senior admin at Memory Alpha! :lol:
     
  12. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    Oh of course it's possible. It's been possible all along. They just don't want to do it and are digging their heels in.

    It's no more complex than that.
     
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  13. Renegade54

    Renegade54 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I agree with this wholeheartedly.
     
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  14. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Not every article is written that way, it's very inconsistent.

    That's something else that needs to be looked it.
     
  15. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    So are you gonna take efforts to include them on the mod team?
     
  16. Renegade54

    Renegade54 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    If you don't understand that, then I can't help you understand. The actors are interpreting what the writers write; the writers create the canon. The actors don't. And it not extra info for Adira; read our resource policy if you really want to understand and not just argue with me.
     
  17. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    So what you're saying is that you need a direct quote from a writer?
     
  18. mdtauk

    mdtauk Commander Red Shirt

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    Actors have to have an interpretation of their character, but they do not always have a complete idea of their character. Here are a couple of examples. Julian Bashir's actor (and the writers) had no idea he had been genetically engineered until it became a storyline. And Jadzia Dax's actor has spoken years after playing the role, to say Jadzia was Pansexual.

    The show is done, so there is no chance of getting canonical information to confirm this is how the characters were written. So Bashir's past can be mentioned, but Terry Farrell's belief Jadzia was always Pansexual, can't be treated as canon. (but it can be mentioned as background information)
     
  19. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    ? I'm not trying to argue, I just wanted hear info regrading policy from someone who enforces it.
    Alright thanks for the explanation.
     
  20. Renegade54

    Renegade54 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Nope, nobody forced me to volunteer at MA, and nobody forced me to create an account here and respond. You're welcome to come to MA and comment on the policies there on the talk pages and forums, but I don't feel I'm getting anywhere here... I'm just saying the same things over and over. Thus, I feel like I'm wasting my time here... so I'll just say bye, and it's been real. :)