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Marvel films, it's time for a Black female lead

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If they were do a new Die Hard with Will Smith, Chadwick Boseman, Chiwetel Ejiofor, or Idris Elba I would be there opening weekend.

Boseman for the win.


when Die Hard came out no one complained that the film has not made the character a minority character..

You mean in 1988 no one in the main stream was talking about DIVERSITY!? I'm shocked, SHOCKED.

lol.

so now doing it where the character is a minority .. you are only doing it to draw attention to the fact of is or her minority status..

So, let's not talk about minorities and the issue will just go away?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

that seems to me that you are making it that character a minority just to make it that way for that reason, and that is the wrong reason to reboot something

The only reason to reboot ANYTHING, with a white or a black lead is because of $$$$$$.
 
Now that Disney is going to reboot DIE HARD.. how much do you want to bet that it won't have a straight while male lead anymore. It will have someone of some race, or a female.. oira female of color. I guarantee it
And the problem with that is?
so yes, the character on Die Hard .. there is nothing about that character tied to race or gender.. and the original was a straight white male.. my point is that .. changing all that.. for no reason (because it is not essential to the story) means they are only doing it (if they do it) to draw attention to itself.
You just said there's no storytelling reason why the character has to be a particular race or gender, yet you're determined that it should be a straight white male for... reasons. The only one pushing an agenda is you, but you're not capable of the kind of self-reflection necessary to confront why you need the character to be straight white and male to accept it.
On the surface I have no problem with making Ariel black.. a i mean that character was not someone that had to be white (it's a fantasy character anyway) but with a studio that was making live action versions look and feel very close to the animated versions, changing her race ONLY brings undue attention to that aspect .. and is the wrong kind of attention. I feel bad for the actress and the undue backlash she will get.
It's a wrong kind of attention brought on by guys like you who are hung up on this kind of stuff, so how about instead of trying to make it falsely look like your doing this out of concern for the actress (I'm sure holding her back from jobs would be a great help to her career) you deal with some of your hangups about race and gender casting?
"t is to reach a broader audience and make more money for their shareholders. " hence an agenda.. not a creative story reason
No way, film studios try to reach a broader audience and make money on their big blockbuster tentpole movies? STOP THE PRESSES!

First off, what's wrong with that? Secondly, you already said there is no storytelling reason that requires the character to be a particular race or gender, yet you keep demanding there be a storytelling based reason for changing the race or gender of the character (and to be clear, it's not even a change, since this is a reboot, not a continuation, so they can cast anyone they want) or else it means dastardly film studios are doing what film studios do and trying to make money and appeal to a broader audience. You're not even consistent with your own argument and are desperately flailing about trying to justify why it has to be a straight white guy for reasons you can't articulate and are uncomfortable with.
when Die Hard came out no one complained that the film has not made the character a minority character.. so now doing it where the character is a minority .. you are only doing it to draw attention to the fact of is or her minority status.. that seems to me that you are making it that character a minority just to make it that way for that reason, and that is the wrong reason to reboot something
You don't even know that it's not going to be a straight white guy, so this could all be preemptive white guy whining about casting. For all we know it could be one of the eight thousand straight white males named Chris who gets the job.

But beyond that, do you have any idea how many people they went through before settling on Bruce Willis while casting the original? It was a who's who of who's white as hell, but there was a lot of differences between the actors within that demographic.

First they were contractually obligated to offer the role to Frank Sinatra because the Roderick Thorp novel Die Hard was based on (Nothing Lasts Forever) was a sequel to the novel and film The Detective which Sinatra starred in in 1968. But since Sinatra was in his 70s he fortunately turned down Die Hard. Then they tried to get Arnold Schwarzenegger, but he turned it down because he wanted to make comedies instead and did Twins. Then they offered the role to Richard Gere, Clint Eastwood, Burt Reynolds, Sylvester Stallone, Harrison Ford, Don Johnson, Nick Nolte, Mel Gibson and Richard Dean Anderson, all of whom turned it down. Then, making a decision based largely on Cinemascore demographic ratings (so there's that agenda driven casting again) and desperate to fill the role, they took a chance on a popular TV comedic actor name Bruce Willis, and he turned them down because he was still filming Moonlighting. Fortunately, Cybil Shepard needed some time off from filming the show for pregnancy leave, so during that five weeks off Willis filmed Die Hard.

Now, even with it being the 80s and more reliant on a straight white male lead, you're telling me that the vast differences in styles and outcomes between casting Sinatra, Schwarzenegger, Nolte, Reynolds, Anderson, Stallone, and Willis are fine, but it's inconceivable to you for the character to be played by a minority man or a woman? You're telling me Idris Elba is not badass and vulnerable enough to be John McClane? Have you seen Luther?

Hell, the Terminator was originally up for grabs between OJ Simpson (who Cameron thought was too nice and not believable as a killer) and Lance Henrikson before settling on Schwarzenegger. That's a pretty major swing across body types and personalities and acting ability.
I just want a great character.
And you're saying for vague undefinable reasons that you keep trying to tip-toe around addressing that a woman or a minority can't be that. It sounds pretty bad, dude.
 
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You don't even know that it's not going to be a straight white guy, so this could all be preemptive white guy whining about casting. For all we know it could be one of the eight thousand straight white males named Chris who gets the job.

I’m figuring Chris Hemsworth.
 
Captain Marvel was a crappy movie.. that it made money like that was in no small part to being in coattails of IW and EG .. let's not split hairs here
Captain Marvel was a perfectly fine movie. Not Marvel Studios best effort, but far, far, far from its worst. If the only reason Captain Marvel made a billion dollars was because it was riding Infinity War's coattails, then why did Ant-Man and the Wasp, a Marvel movie that was riding even closer to Infinity War's coattails, only make 622 million?
 
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Captain Marvel with a perfectly fine movie. Not Marvel Studios best effort, but far, far, far from its worst. If the only reason Captain Marvel made a billion dollars was because it was riding Infinity War's coattails, why did Ant-Man and the Wasp, a Marvel movie that was riding even closer to Infinity War's coattails, only make 622 million?

Logic doesn’t work in these kinds of discussions.
 
The vast majority of the big decision makers in Hollywood are still white men, and if you leave them to just do whatever they want with the movies they make, they are only ever going to make movies starring white guys. The only way to actually get them to make movies with people other than white guys in the lead is for someone else to step up and say "hey, let's make a movie with a black guy or black woman or asian guy in the lead role".
The white guy as the default is so entrenched at this point, that you have to go in with the specific goal of making a movie with someone else, and then convince all the white guys making the decisions to actually let you keep that person not a white guy.
There are tons of stories out there where the first comment from the decision makers after they are presented with a movie pitch with someone other than a white guy in the lead is "can't the hero be white" or "can't the hero be a man".
[QUOTE="Jayson1, post: 13055428, member: 73943" I was also curious about something. Did Peggy Carter ever become a super hero in the comics? Maybe a multi-verse version could show up eventually. Jason
Yes, there is an alternate universe version of Peggy Carter who became Captain America. That version was originally created for the Puzzle Quest game, before being incorporated into the comics through the 2018 Exiles series, and is also a playable character in LEGO Marvel Super Heroes 2. I actually just played as her for a few minutes when I was playing yesterday.
I don't know if it's specifically based on this version of her, but we do know that one episode of the What If? animated series will feature Hayley Atwell as a version of Peggy who became Captain America instead of Steve Rogers.[/QUOTE]
Is the white guy still the default? Maybe with baby boomers but the impression I have gotten is their shared default between straight white guy/women and black guy. I know the 3 most underrepsented is gay/transgender and asian. Jason
 
Then stop complaining about the great character having the wrong skin color or gender. John McClane won't be any less of a great character if he's played by Idris Elba.
He might be better. His voice alone can crumble mountains. I’ve heard his name is a killing word.
 
Boseman for the win.




You mean in 1988 no one in the main stream was talking about DIVERSITY!? I'm shocked, SHOCKED.

lol.



So, let's not talk about minorities and the issue will just go away?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.



The only reason to reboot ANYTHING, with a white or a black lead is because of $$$$$$.
Boseman is overated. It needs to be Jamie Fox or Will Smith. Someone with a background in comedy. If it was a white guy then Robert Downey Jr. Jason
 
Back then it was about making the sidekick black.

On BH90120 last week, Gabrielle Carteris, who played Andrea in the 90s, said something like "Good lord don't you remember what it was like back then when we were making the show? I wasn't even allowed to touch my African American boyfriend on camera. That's why... I want to... explore Andrea's sexuality in the reboot."

The new 90210 series is about the actors behind the camera trying to get a reboot off the ground, against many obstacles. Which is weird, meta, and fun.
 
so i guarantee you that if they made a McClane a black character or female it would draw attention to itself that has nothing to do with the film because "diversity" and "agendas" is all that people talk about?
 
you are only doing it to draw attention to the fact of is or her minority status.. that seems to me that you are making it that character a minority just to make it that way for that reason, and that is the wrong reason to reboot something

First off, what's wrong with that? Secondly, you already said there is no storytelling reason that requires the character to be a particular race or gender, yet you keep demanding there be a storytelling based reason for changing the race or gender of the character (and to be clear, it's not even a change, since this is a reboot, not a continuation, so they can cast anyone they want) or else it means dastardly film studios are doing what film studios do and trying to make money and appeal to a broader audience.

Unfortunately, the crass economic reason will probably get a lot of such projects rolling initially. But I challenge your assertion that there's no creative reason for a remake/reboot to switch the ethnicity and/or gender of main characters. Directors and writers (and audiences!) might find it quite interesting to explore a familiar story from the perspective of a person from a different background. That's actually quite fertile dramatic (or comedic) ground to cover.

For example, The Omega Man was a 1971 film starring Charlton Heston, based on the short story, "I Am Legend". In 2007, Will Smith starred in another film adaptation of the same short story. In my opinion, both were fairly mediocre films, with the more recent film getting somewhat better online ratings. Though similar, the two characters approached their survival from different perspectives. And I guarantee you the remake wasn't done just to blindly switch the protagonist's ethnicity; it was made to give Smith a starring role in an action film that would probably make buckets of money.

But legends and myths have often morphed over the centuries, picked up by new generations and different cultures, and altered in ways to fit the reality of the new audiences. That's what a lot of modern storytellers want to do now -- tell some older stories in new ways to speak to the experiences of wider audiences. Not that a black man can't see himself in a white character, or a white man can't see himself in a female hispanic character; but we can all identify better when we see someone closer to ourselves portrayed in literature or drama. Just because others are included doesn't mean you are excluded.
 
1. Brian Michael Bendis is writing the Legion of Super Heroes.
2. Lightning Lad is No Longer white.
3. Lightning Lad is now black.
4. What about his Girlfriend/wife?
5. Apollo and Midnighter are no longer white.
6. Apollo and Midnighter are black.
7. Apollo and Midnighter are still gay.
 
so i guarantee you that if they made a McClane a black character or female it would draw attention to itself that has nothing to do with the film because "diversity" and "agendas" is all that people talk about?
Just because some idiots would get butthurt and scream about "mah movie has onea THEM people in it" doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. You seem to be advocating never doing ANYTHING that might be controversial. With that thinking, no one would have taken a leap on Michael Keaton as Batman, or rebooted Battlestar Galactica. Just because it might "draw attention to itself" doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
 
Unfortunately, the crass economic reason will probably get a lot of such projects rolling initially. But I challenge your assertion that there's no creative reason for a remake/reboot to switch the ethnicity and/or gender of main characters. Directors and writers (and audiences!) might find it quite interesting to explore a familiar story from the perspective of a person from a different background. That's actually quite fertile dramatic (or comedic) ground to cover.
That is not my assertion in the slightest. I'm merely concerned with countering Flying Spaghetti Monster's reticence to recast the character with a minority or female actor, which I, quite obviously I thought, would be fine with doing for whatever reason the producers chose to do. I just said there's nothing wrong or unusual with them wanting to appeal to a broader demographic or desiring more profits, not that there's no creative justification for making the choice as well.
 
so i guarantee you that if they made a McClane a black character or female it would draw attention to itself that has nothing to do with the film because "diversity" and "agendas" is all that people talk about?
So what? Why should studios or audiences pander to a small but vocal group that's stuck in the past and refuses to adjust to the fact that this is a diverse and changing world?
 
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