Marvel films, it's time for a Black female lead

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Infern0, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Infern0

    Infern0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's about background and where you came from.

    Like the black people that live upstate they ain't the same kinda black people as the ones from the hood.

    Gal Gadot made her own breaks she earned her way.

    Portman was groomed for success hence being a child star man

    Gal gadot is a foreigner from a foreign country with a funny accent who made good. Portman is just some white Valley girl you see 500 of at the mall. Gadot knows a bit about struggle. Portman knows a silver spoon.
     
  2. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So, this isn’t about actual skin color anymore?
     
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  3. Infern0

    Infern0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You think all minorities with the same skin color are the same?

    This is about white privilege, Portman has it gadot not so much in my opinion.
     
  4. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it might be about dropping buzzwords.

    Which one of those two is "blacker"?
     
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  5. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, I don’t.
    I was genuinely asking if we are still talking about your original premise of the thread anymore.
    Because you started about black female actresses.
    I agree, that it’s a good idea, to cast more diverse.
    I also agree, that casting should weigh talent over background.

    However, you also criticized using already cast actors for already established characters. And there your argument gets a bit muddier.

    So, what would be your solution?

    Recast existing characters?
    Make new characters/movies instead of the planned ones?
    Make new characters/movies in addition to the planned ones?
    All of the above or something else entirely?
     
  6. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Okay, people, maybe you all need to chill out, because it appears right now like everyone is assuming the worst about the words of everyone else, and that's no way to solve an argument.

    Now, I know, technically you can make Gal Gadot and Natalie Portman people of the same social group, based on the fact that both were born in Israel, and both are (*gasp* in Israel?!) Jewish.

    But you should be able to distinguish there, because, it's obvious. While Gadot is an obvious foreigner, Portman is not. She may be an Israeli-born Jewish-American, but she's very clearly American. I mean, look at her. Listen to her speak. She's got no disadvantage in Hollywood, because until you're told she was born in Israel, she wouldn't be any different to any other white Jewish-American in Hollywood, most of whom are indistinguishable from white non-Jewish-Americans in Hollywood anyway. I mean, take a look at the list of Jewish actors. I know a lot of names on that list where I didn't know about them being Jewish (or of Jewish heritage), and honestly, I don't even care outside of this argument.
    Or to put it another way, if Lisa Bonet was discriminated against in Hollywood, do you honestly think it had anything to do with her mother being Jewish?

    And, please, take some time to think before replying, don't write a snarky answer to "get back" at another poster, remember that none of us has all the answers and we're all constantly looking for those we don't have, and instead of fighting with each other, we should try to educate each other.
    At least on a subject as important as this. If it's Disco vs Orville, go ahead with the sarcasm.
     
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  7. Infern0

    Infern0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A mixture of all the above.

    I feel there needs to be a massive push on all fronts.

    It's not enough to say "Oh yeah more women of color should be cast in leading roles" while you yourself are holding up a leading role.

    This is a problem everyone is playing some part in.

    Captain Marvel was heralded as a game changer for diversity but they really did the Rambeau family no favours in that movie.

    I feel if Brie really be lives in wanting diversity she should advocate for her character to retire in the next movie, cast a young African American as Monica and have her be captain marvel. Keep Brie on as a sidekick or mentor if you want but hand over that leading role.
     
  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They should make some famous white male characters into a black female just to piss off the incels.
     
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  9. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I feel like if a viewer really believes in wanting diversity they should stop going to see most movies with white leads. Money talks.
     
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  10. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They were both born in Israel - Portman in Jerusalem, Gadot in Petah Tikva & Rosh HaAyin - so I'm not sure there's much difference on the where from a representation PoV.

    On the contrary, Portman's parents were initially reluctant for her to go into acting (due to come of the content in the draft scipt for The Professional) and Portman put a lot a effort into learning her craft as much as she could. I'd also point that while high-profile teen stars aren't unusual nowadays, they were a lot less common back then, and a teen star that made the jump to adult without dropping down to c-list character parts was almost unheard of.

    As noted above, they were both born overseas (and in fact both self-identify as Israeli), as far as "Valley Girl" - if you mean Californian/West Coaster - then you're also wrong as Portman lived in DC, Connecticut and Long Island as a teen, but never on the West Coast. As far as Gadot "knowing struggle" that may be true in the general sense (Israel certainly isn't the most peaceful country on Earth), however on a personal level, I doubt Gadot's history is any more "rags to riches" than Portman's as she was the daughter of a teacher and an engineer (so a double income middle to upper middle class family), whereas Portman's parents were a housewife and a gynecologist (so a single income middle class family), so any "silver spoon" that she had was likely from her own earnings as a actor.
     
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  11. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's irrelevant but kind of funny that the two have "switched" surnames. Portman Americanized her name (real name Nata-Lee Hershlag), whereas Gadot's parents Hebraized their surname from Greenstein.
     
  12. Infern0

    Infern0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've put that into practice. Now don't get me wrong if I see the playing field equal out then I will be happy to go to those movies but for the time being I'm sitting them out
     
  13. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree that it was exaggerated, though I'd say it still deserves some of its accolades for being one of the most successful, female-led movies. I'm also struggling to see how given Monica, who was a young (pre-)teen in the movie more screentime and backstory is "doing her no favours"?

    As Carol often points out, it's a big galaxy out there and there's room for more than one Captain Marvel. I'd very much be in favour of Monica being recruited as Earth's Captain Marvel at some point over Phase 4, however unless its in a "Captain Marvel 2" then the main actor wouldn't be especially "young", but rather in her mid-40s (so potentially looking older than Carol). However, unsurprisingly Marvel haven't cast her quite that old, as Teyonah Parris who is set to play Monica Rambeau (codename unrevealed) in WandaVision is only 31.
     
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  14. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Could't they just do a Storm and Valkerie movie in Phase 4 or 5. Nobody needs to replace anyone. Jason
     
  15. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, they can fudge her age a bit with being blipped.
     
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  16. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    11 years old in 1995, 31 in 2015, 36 in 2020, minus five for the Blip, right on the money.
     
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  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It’s tougher to fit diverse fields into Marvel in particular because so much of their money comes from the viewer’s attachment to the source material. There are non-racist motives not to want to change the demographics of existing favorites.

    I don’t think any boycotts are in order. I’m kind of torn because on one hand I agree the movies should be more diverse but in the other hand I’m against imposing our own politics onto other people’s art.
     
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  18. dodge

    dodge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've done the math and I can reasonably certainly say that about 80% of people who watch MCU movies have never picked up a comic book in their life.
     
  19. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That is true but now the MCU has to compete against it's own movies and other movies. I feel bad for whoever has to follow Hugh Jackman for example. I also wonder how much mileage it can get out of unknown titles. Jason
     
  20. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No but the characters are multimedia.