Another stupid thing James Gunn has said on Twitter...
How so?
Helstrom?
Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
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Another stupid thing James Gunn has said on Twitter...
How so?
Helstrom?
Because they are extremely emphatic about how you can't change the past. Yet the Agents of Shield do change their past.
No they don't.
SPOILERS!!!!!!!! (sorry: never used the tags before)
The only changes happen once they get to the Inhumans stuff and save Daisy's sister. Everything after that is in an alternate timeline, as shown by Fitz travelling there through the quantum realm to get there, and every one going back to the MCU timeline except Deke who stats and leads SHIELD in the alternate timeline. Besides, even the writers and director can't agree on how correct Hulk was, as evidenced by the ongoing debate about which timeline's past Cap lived in. The main complaint I've heard about seasons 6 and 7 of AoS not fitting with the rest of the MCU was their not mentioning the snap, but season 6 starts up a year after the snap, and they have like 3 alien invasions, 2 sorta' returns of the same loved one and a whole season of time travel going on.
You don't need to spoiler tag AOS stuff that was broadcast years ago.
But the whole point of the Kree invasion storyline IS that they do change their past. Yoyo lived through the entire invasion. And then she didn't. Fitz 'traveled' forward by simple suspended animation and then went 'home' to a completely changed past.
Also, there clearly was disagreement about how Endgame's rules are supposed to work, but the disagreement was not about 'You can't change your past'. On the one side is the idea that you can't exist in your own past at all because you being there would be a change, therefore all 'time travel' must be automatically to alternate realities, not to your own past, ie, it's completely impossible to ever travel to your own past. On the other side is the idea that you could exist in your own past but would not be able to change it because if you exist there then you must have always existed there and your choices were always part of your past, ie, the past can be visited but cannot ever be changed.
Applying the options to AoS, then either the story is completely incompatible because they changed their past or else they didn't actually accomplish anything other than traveling back to a different timeline from the one they were originally from, which is clearly not how the AoS story is intended to be interpreted.
Well, season 7 came out in 2020.
Or, they went to a different future and were able to avoid it thanks to the warning.
I guess I've been a Star Trek fan WAAAAY too long to consider different time travel rules in various stories an issue.
I suppose, yeah. I was mainly thinking about season 5 since that's what I was talking about, but I guess you were talking about later stuff.
They verifiably did not. Fitz never 'time traveled' to the future, he just waited in suspended animation.
I mean, Star Trek does have tons of major inconsistencies. But keep in mind, here, I'm not saying it's automatically a 'problem'. Almost any inconsistency can be fanwaved/fansplained away if you really want it to be. I'm just saying the inconsistency really is there. It's not a case of these two stories just never intersect with each other in any way so there's no reason they couldn't be in the same continuity.
And also, given how big the inconsistency is and how easily it could have avoided, it's pretty clear that MS didn't care enough about AoS to try. Combine that with the major push of the D+ series which came simultaneously with the cancellation of literally everything else and it seems almost certain that MS isn't interested in accomodating any of those series or their storylines anymore. So I do expect that anyone who loves those series is probably going to see more and more inconsistencies popping up over time because I genuinely don't think MS is going to take those events into account at all in regards to their growing continuity.
That is my fear, but in this small area I'm allowing myself to live in hope.
To be honest I'm happy to consider some of the time travel shennanegens to account for discrepancies and just be glad if the characters pop up in the MCU. Even more so if it's the same actors.
It might be a lazy handwave, but it'll do. And as I've said before, MCU Coulson 2.0 could be introduced with little more than "This is our most advanced LMD based on some Vision related tech advancements and brain scans of the subject".
Most of us are comic fans to one extent or another. I think I am just going to start treating the MCU the same way I consider the MU or DCU is more appropriate the larger it gets and the longer it endures.
All comic universes have inconsistencies, things from the past that are ignored or rewritten, retcons, and just inconsistencies across books-- yet we still treat the stories as being in the same fictional universe. We do something similar for Doctor Who, and for Star Trek.
All comic universes have inconsistencies, things from the past that are ignored or rewritten, retcons, and just inconsistencies across books-- yet we still treat the stories as being in the same fictional universe. We do something similar for Doctor Who, and for Star Trek.
I have to admit when
Coulson showed up, I did hope they'd throw away a mind bending "of course he didn't really die" line and leave it there.
If AoS isn't mentioned in Loki, I can't see it ever been mentioned, and I'm happy to assume it's a real alternate timeline that branched just before the snap.
Agree, dodgy time travel, make no sense to choose that point to go back in time, and why go back to that specific point and not 3 weeks earlier? (20 years later and I'm still sore about Carey)
Yup. It's a feature, not a bug.
Yup, that's exactly how I feel. Doctor Who prepared me for this decades ago.
I really wanted that to happen, too.
Me too.
Oh, I must have missed those, or not gotten to them yet.
OK, cool. I haven't Cloak & Dagger yet, so I'll keep an eye out for that stuff when I do.
You can't miss them (the ones in Cloak & Dagger). They're pretty direct references.
Am I misremembering or does Luke Cage also reference Cloak and Dagger back?
Yup, as Christopher mentioned on the last page, O'Reilly was name checked in season 2 but I don't remember exactly when that one happened. Presumably Missy mentions her
