Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

The black and gold suit reminds me of the reprint cover of Todd McFarlanes Spider-Man #1

 

During a recent conversation on Twitter James Gunn said that he doesn't consider the Marvel Television stuff like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. canon for the MCU. It sounds this was just his personal opinion, so it might not necessarily be Marvel's official stance.

 

Not too surprising as it has certainly felt that way even if not outright officially stated to be the case.

 

I've always found it ridiculous debate what's real and not real in an entirely fictional construction. Agents of Shield will always be Canon to me and I don't care what anyone says.

And, if we're being honest, nothing major from Agents of Shield has really been contradicted and they've been more consistent with it then I would have expected them to be.

 

It's not about "real," it's about whether elements from one work of fiction will be utilized or contradicted in another. It's not about subjective opinions or value judgments, but about the objective, factual question of what future storytelling choices might be made, e.g. whether we'll ever see Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin or Brian Patrick Wade's Crusher Creel show up in the movies or a Disney+ show, or if instead we'll get a contradictory, recast version.

 

Then, in my head-canon, I will consider the recast contradictory version to be non-canon. Simple.

 

Endgame pretty heavily contradicts the AoS time travel story.

 

Can't you just count them as alternate timelines? AoS established their existence, and apparently the movies/streaming shows are doing it too, so there's room for the alternate versions to coexist.

Also, it's contradictory to say in one sentence that it's ridiculous to debate what's real and unreal in fiction, and then to say in the next sentence that you'll consider one fictional account unreal. Make up your mind.

 

I like the Marvel Cinematic, I have not seen all but would rank it a B - minus, some of it is excellent cinema but some of the movies and shows are too dumb for me to enjoy. Marvel is very good but if you were to rank it as a money making experiement it gets an A + , Marvel already broke all the records. I'm not sure even the Disney Marvel machine will ever be the same with this Covid Lockdown and new mutations and newer evolutions of the Corona virus and closure of cinema but as a leader of the brand Kevin Feige will rank up there as one of the greatest marketing genius. Marvel would keep building on each idea with all those end credits scenes starting the hype for the Marvel Universe and locking the films into one giant inter-connected soap opera. I still like films and universes to stand on their own, I still like the Spider-Man Tobey Maguire, I caught a few retro runs of the old Hulk show and the classic Donner Christopher Reeve Superman, I still enjoy indie stuff like 30 Days of Night, V for Vendetta and Akira, the biggest problem Warner Bros and DC trying to do Marvel, DC/WB's biggest problem they had is WB wanted the cash, they wanted that box office blockbuster what Marvel had with Avengers and rushed their world building way too fast trying to catch up with multiple box office hit the product Marvel made.

 

Oh, I don't count the last two seasons.

 

Until Marvel indicates otherwise, the only Marvel TV production I consider to be "canon" within the MCU is the first season of Agent Carter.

 

Until Marvel (and by that, I mean Feige or the other higher-ups) indicates otherwise, I consider it all canon: the ABC shows, the Netflix shows, Runaways and Cloak and Dagger.

 

Endgame is best ignored.

 

I would agree with this -- these shows used to be canon and nobody has stated that they are no longer canon -- even AoS can still be canon if we just assume that seasons six and seven take place after the blip, or if the blip was just not mentioned in dialogue. Seasons six and seven could also theoretically take place in an altered timeline--but I am not sure how to reconcile that idea with what happens to Earth in Season 5.

 

I would prefer "in continuity" to "canon" (the latter is not synonymous with the former), but this is my preferred interpretation at the moment. I figure that for the first year or so after the Blip, people were in denial and trying to get on with their ordinary lives, and the economy and industry hadn't collapsed to the point that they had by Endgame.

As I figure it, the timeline split would have occurred as soon as the team was abducted to the future at the end of season 4 -- or perhaps as soon as Robin had the prophecy that catalyzed their abduction. That would've been the event that catalyzed the creation of the destroyed-Earth future, so that would logically be when the split occurred between that future and the main one.

 

I'll amend.

Infinity War and Endgame is best ignored.

Also, death threats to Disney? Must be Tuesday.

 

I realized I posted what Gunn said but didn't share my thoughts. I definitely count the first 3 or 4 seasons, but things do start to get a little hinky with the last couple season. I think those couple seasons would work best as an alternate timeline, since things don't really line up with the last couple Avengers movies.
I definitely count all of Agent Carter since we got James D'Arcy as Jarvis in Endgame, and since Christopher Marcus and Stephen McFeely, who wrote wrote all of the Captain America movies, and Infinity War and Endgame, worked on it.
Are there any connections between Runaways and Cloak & Dagger and the MCU movies or shows? I've seen the first two seasons of Runaways, but I don't remember seeing anything.

 

There were references to Wakanda and the Dark Dimension in Runaways.

 

Cloak & Dagger makes several references to Daredevil and Luke Cage, as well as having subtle links to the Roxxon/Darkforce backstory from Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter. Luke himself was specifically mentioned, and the regular character Brigid O'Reilly was a former NYPD cop who mentioned knowing Ben Urich and Misty Knight. Luke Cage returned the favor, giving O'Reilly a name drop in a season 2 episode.

 

I think Loki itself is outright stating that what Endgame said about time travel was just wrong because, while he's very very smart, Bruce Banner doesn't know everything.