Spoilers Loki season one discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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For all intents and purposes, it kind of is, especially the way some shows use mid-season finales and then there's a long break before the second half. Shows like Breaking Bad where season six is really two seasons. The reverse is true here.
That said, I get the frustration some people are feeling but it doesn't bother me. I think it helps that a second season was so long rumored and practically confirmed already that I wasn't at all surprised to see the kind of cliffhanger that we got. Also helps that I grew up (both as a kid and a young adult) on event television that hung on cliffhangers, whether it was The Next Generation, Deep Space 9, and Voyager or more recently, LOST, Battlestar Galactica, and Fringe.
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I know I hope they do more episodes. Like maybe 8 or 9. Also they should create two stories going that are separate but with sort of same goal in mind. One where Loki and Mobius, security lady and front desk guy who is in Tacoma PD is having one adventure and another has Sylvie, leader lady and Mobius who remembers Loki and maybe a new character who are doing something else. Both though are trying to fix the messed up timelines.
Twist: The prime timeline Moebius is the actor Owen Wilson.
Yes. I agree. Plus or minus Bulldozer is not a deal breaker. But right now, the MCU has no X-Men, Doctor Doom, Galactus, Fantastic Four, Molecule Man, Absorbing Man, etc do they? That seems like a few too many absences.
But are they really integral to the plot, will it not work without them? IF, and that's a big if, the MCU story loosely follows the comic storyline as it did with Civil War will the story change at all if Doom doesn't appear or the FF4?
The story is basically that a beyond superhero powerful entity ( The Beyonder, not even hinted at in the MCU) conducts an experiment with Earths' superheroes and villains and abducts them to fight against each other - so far so good. Is it now important that the FF4 fight against Doom? I don't think so, especially because those have not even be introduced into the MCU and unlike DC Marvel takes its time to introduce major characters and teams before they throw them into the pot.
So the specific players are not important to the story - it could well be that Kang, if he's supposed to be the big bad of the Multiverse, could do Secret Wars and the MCU takes whatever heroes and villains they have going on currently, divide them up and let them loose.
I think you will find that many who were heavily into the comics did not like this finale either. And many who do like it. So I don't think not having a strong comics background is the dividing line here. I was a very intensive Comic collector in the 70s and 80s. I remember Kang well. Never liked the character. And I do get all of the criticisms we are hearing. Some I share.
But I can see how, given the Kang/Immortus history, that he would be a good choice as the next MCU multi-show, multi-movie Big Bad. This does open up a lot of story possibilities. Some very trippy. And the potential of that is very exciting. So for me, that is my dominant takeaway.
One thing I don’t get is, if he won the timeline wars, where did new variants keep coming from, and why did his death instantly cause dozens of them?
There must be some other agent opposing him.
This reminds me of a storyline in the old webcomic Faans where after universe peace was achieved, a warlord started going back and sabotaging pasts to create new futures to conquer.
There must be some other agent opposing him.
This reminds me of a storyline in the old webcomic Faans where after universe peace was achieved, a warlord started going back and sabotaging pasts to create new futures to conquer.
The first X-Men movie proved this. In the comics-verse, Wolverine was around 7 years before Rogue appeared, yet they both appeared in the first movie because by that time, they were both popular X-Men. The movies tend to amalgamate the comics history quite a lot.
1. I think this will be 2 different multi-show/movie arcs after Thanos. First will be Kang and the Multiverse, and then whoever/whatever will be the Next Phase Big Bad after Kang. No doubt in my mind that Beyonder is coming in at some point. But I think he is after Kang, but I can see how someone doing something during the Multiverse war, will end up punching that pinhole into the Beyonders realm and thus setting that up.
2. Of course you can "recast" it and try to tell the same basic story. But Doom was pretty central to that story and probably the best and most iconic Marvel villain yet to make an appearance. Thanos is dead. Even if the Beyonder could pull a living Thanos from the past, we already had Thanos as the Big Bad. Not many really big candidates for a compelling villain-team leader exist in the MCU. And the villain team seems a bit slender anyway. It needs to be fleshed out, and a Multiverse character dump seems like an ideal way to thicken the rosters.
3. The hero team dynamics need a change. Not just the same people from the Infinity war. X-Men and Magneto added a unique dimension. They ended up splitting from the main Hero Group originally. She Hulk, Spider Woman, Monica Rambeau are good additions to the MCU anyway, and contribute to further changing the Infinity War dynamic.
That actually would be a fun twist. Soon as Moebius founds out the first thing he says is, wow.
Well, Kang/Immortus should be regarded as a somewhat unreliable narrator. And I still suspect that this only pertains to Earth 199999 and the other live action iterations. I don't think Earth-616 is part of this. I am sure Marvel is not trying to say that Earth 616 was ever "pruned" and just now sprung back into existence. The MCU is one branch in the tree, and it and the timelines branching from it are what is at stake I believe. In any case, there could be more to this than what he told Loki and Syvie. I am sure there is.
The TVA has been changed, but is this altered TVA really an "alternate" reality existing at the same time as some other TVAs in other realities? I thought the TVA was in its own standalone reality, completely independent from the multiverse, and there could only be one TVA.
Kor
Kor
That's why I think Mobius's and B-15's memories changed when the Kang variant's death altered the timelines instead of being an alternate TVA. Up to that point, it's been stated that the TVA existed outside of the "sacred" timeline so they wouldn't be also branching off when the multiverse was created.
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I thought exactly the same thing, but then I thought how the death of The Last One Standing At the End of Time Who May Be Kang might have ended whatever it was that kept the TVA outside of all the other timelines. So maybe all the timelines now have their own TVA, which could become a problem. Or a solution.
If the TVA was independently apart from all timelines then nothing should have changed. Prime Kang (or however you chose to call him) died. If he was what held the TVA apart from all the timelines then that wouldn't change. But what if it was dependent on Prime Kang? The big change that happened this episode was no more Prime Kang, and Loki and Sophie refused the inheritance. Hmmm...
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From the comics, the links are already there as Immortus/Kang is responsible for the Vision and Wanda becoming a couple. There is also a link to the twins. And there he also has a.hand in Wanda's role as a Nexus being.
Majors is still not credited to he appearing in Dr. Strange, but it would not he surprising to see him in an end credits scene.
Majors is still not credited to he appearing in Dr. Strange, but it would not he surprising to see him in an end credits scene.
Worth noting that ImDb has Majors listed as He Who Remains. No reference to Immortus or Kang. It will be interesting to see if the various incarnations of Kang are set up. Will we see him in Young Avengers? Will we see Rama Tut in Eternals?
As for the final episode, I enjoyed it. They were not going to top the action from last week.
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They kept Majors' role from this show quiet so it wouldn't be a stretch for the same to happen again for Multiverse of Madness.
And the cast for The Eternals only list 19 people so far. Kang has a celestial connection as well from the 70s.
Kang is Reed Richard's Brother.
Father and son have the same name.
Nathaniel.
If you can stop Nathaniel from having children.
No Kang.
No new Kangs.
Prune the baby Kang, no competing Immortus.
Kinda suicidal.
All Immortus had to do is veer his variants away from that one naturally occurring eureka moment where he discovers the multiverse.
He can prune time timelines too far gone or nudge individuals to stop his birth or benignly reassign his intellect to something like geology or women.
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