Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Anters, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Location:
    Democratically Liberated America
    I think the pacing issues are due to budget. When they need to save money they slow down things and do exposition. The episode 9 looks like an action fest.
     
  2. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Location:
    Democratically Liberated America
    DS9 is WAY better.
     
  3. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Location:
    Democratically Liberated America
    Is it me or do people not get narrative structure. The Heroes are the one who bring hope. That's true for all series. I don't understand this. Do people really want a travelogue of the Federation and how wonderful it is.
     
    Bast, Hythlodeus, burningoil and 6 others like this.
  4. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    NewHeavensNewEarth
    I remember having similar thoughts about DS9 when it first aired, and then I came to appreciate it. Sisko was a broken man who was still reeling from past loss, and was committing extortion within the first 20 minutes of the 1st episode, there was still racism, bitterness, mistrust, theft and crime, money (jk), hubris. But it all created a richer & more relatable setting which was in an ideal position to speak to current struggles of society, rather than handwaving them away by saying, "We got over that. 'Cause it's the future." PIC can do the same, but in its own way.
     
  5. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    Moopsy
    What unsolved problems?

    Most of this series inst even set in Federation space let alone a federation starship! So yes its going to be bleaker. Its never been sunshine and rainbows outside the federation boarders.
     
  6. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Location:
    Democratically Liberated America
    What Picard says is "We NEED to get over that. We have to EMBRACE the Future" - does anyone pay attention to the actual episode.
     
    iarann and Hythlodeus like this.
  7. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Only to the extent necessary to drive the chosen narrative, apparently.
     
    Hythlodeus likes this.
  8. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Location:
    Tenacity
    Nor inside the Federation's borders either
     
    iarann, Hythlodeus and cooleddie74 like this.
  9. Racefuel

    Racefuel Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    I didn't say I didn't like TNG, I was refuting the idea that it's a "masterpiece".

    Stop assuming shit.
     
    Hythlodeus likes this.
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    24th Century Trek in my order of preference:

    PIC
    DS9
    TNG
    VOY
    .
    .
    .
    (insert gap)
    .
    .
    .
    TNG Movies
     
  11. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Depends on what you mean by "solved." The PIC take is that human nature isn't actually different. You can build structures which let people make better decisions, and as long as you work to maintain those structures properly they will function properly. But you don't ever get to stop doing that work. As Q said, the trial never ends.
     
    SJGardner and Greg Cox like this.
  12. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    Exactly. When I bitch about TNG being treated as the Gold Standard for Trek shows, that doesn't mean I'm bashing TNG. I watched the show religiously back in the day, enjoyed it very much (after the first season or so), have written at least four TNG novels, and will cop to feeling a genuine pang of nostalgia when Will and Deanna popped up a few weeks ago.

    TNG was a great show. I only object to people assuming that "STAR TREK" equals "like TNG." I prefer more variety in my Trek, as opposed to insisting that, say, vanilla is the only "real" ice cream. One can enjoy vanilla and chocolate-chip mint, depending on what you're in the mood for.
     
    Bast, MrPicard and SJGardner like this.
  13. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Arguably The Best Poster Named cooleddie Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    That even applies to antiheroes. Look at the Godfather movies. The Corleones are in many respects morally repugnant people who do horrible things but to the extent positive and heroic messages are conveyed they're conveyed by the Corleones who are the protagonists in a world of people even worse than they.

    Somebody has to be the "good guy" and the narrative is under their direction.
     
  14. Lt.Smokey

    Lt.Smokey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Haven't seen ep 8? It answered any lingering questions I had on this.

    My takeaway from Trek was never that the Federation instills hope but that hope exists inside of humanity itself. The federation is overall good, but flawed like any political organization and it takes good people to correct those flaws again and again. If the Federation reaches perfection, then Trek is dead, IMO.
     
    Greg Cox likes this.
  15. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    And, honestly, any "utopia" in which everybody is evolved and civilized all the time, and never swears or smokes or loses their temper or makes bad decisions or whatever, sounds more like some sort of dystopia to me.

    Of the sort that Captain Kirk would probably blow up. :)
     
  16. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Arguably The Best Poster Named cooleddie Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    I'd launch a trilithium probe into that utopia's Sun and in a Vulcan heartbeat. :p
     
    ALF and Turtletrekker like this.
  17. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    Well, I have to agree with that. I really like DS9 and its characters.

    But still I see TNG as a masterpiece and so also the first three seasons of Voyager.
     
  18. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    I'm not assuming anything. I just got the impression that you weren't too fond of TNG.

    Now when that is sorted out, I must state that I still find TNG a masterpiece and that Star trek reached its highest point with TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of Voyager.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  19. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2020
    Location:
    Sheer Fucking Hubris
    Where exactly does Seven say that?
     
    Turtletrekker likes this.
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    There is a huge gulf between "I don't think TNG is a masterpiece" and "I don't like TNG."

    Now, I personally do not like TNG. I prefer shows like SG-1, Farscape, or Seaquest over TNG. None of those I would classify as "masterpieces of fiction," though they have their moments.

    TNG is a fun show, at times. But, I would not call it a masterpiece. But, then, there are few shows I would use that moniker about. I think that TOS' "Balance of Terror" qualifies.