Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…

[Yminale]

I think the pacing issues are due to budget. When they need to save money they slow down things and do exposition. The episode 9 looks like an action fest.

 

[Yminale]

Yes, I think that TNG is a masterpiece.
I assume that you don't like TNG. Now tell me what's better.

DS9 is WAY better.

 

[Yminale]

Is it me or do people not get narrative structure. The Heroes are the one who bring hope. That's true for all series. I don't understand this. Do people really want a travelogue of the Federation and how wonderful it is.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

I remember having similar thoughts about DS9 when it first aired, and then I came to appreciate it. Sisko was a broken man who was still reeling from past loss, and was committing extortion within the first 20 minutes of the 1st episode, there was still racism, bitterness, mistrust, theft and crime, money (jk), hubris. But it all created a richer & more relatable setting which was in an ideal position to speak to current struggles of society, rather than handwaving them away by saying, "We got over that. 'Cause it's the future." PIC can do the same, but in its own way.

 

[Crazyewok]

I love Picard, I think it's a great show and the story's are good, though as Seven of Nine says it lacks hope.
The one thing I relied on with Star Trek was that the Federation was an organisation that instilled hope and it just doesn't seem to giving that level to me and is a bit bleak, we haven't solved any problems and they're all still the ones we currently have.. or is that just me?

What unsolved problems?

Most of this series inst even set in Federation space let alone a federation starship! So yes its going to be bleaker. Its never been sunshine and rainbows outside the federation boarders.

 

[Yminale]

rather than handwaving them away by saying, "We got over that. 'Cause it's the future." PIC can do the same, but in its own way.

What Picard says is "We NEED to get over that. We have to EMBRACE the Future" - does anyone pay attention to the actual episode.

 

[AlanC9]

What Picard says is "We NEED to get over that. We have to EMBRACE the Future" - does anyone pay attention to the actual episode.

Only to the extent necessary to drive the chosen narrative, apparently.

 

[Tenacity]

Its never been sunshine and rainbows outside the federation boarders.

Nor inside the Federation's borders either

 

[Racefuel]

Yes, I think that TNG is a masterpiece.
I assume that you don't like TNG. Now tell me what's better.

I didn't say I didn't like TNG, I was refuting the idea that it's a "masterpiece".

Stop assuming shit.

 

[Lord Garth]

24th Century Trek in my order of preference:

PIC
DS9
TNG
VOY
.
.
.
(insert gap)
.
.
.
TNG Movies

 

[AlanC9]

I love Picard, I think it's a great show and the story's are good, though as Seven of Nine says it lacks hope.
The one thing I relied on with Star Trek was that the Federation was an organisation that instilled hope and it just doesn't seem to giving that level to me and is a bit bleak, we haven't solved any problems and they're all still the ones we currently have.. or is that just me?

Depends on what you mean by "solved." The PIC take is that human nature isn't actually different. You can build structures which let people make better decisions, and as long as you work to maintain those structures properly they will function properly. But you don't ever get to stop doing that work. As Q said, the trial never ends.

 

[Greg Cox]

I didn't say I didn't like TNG, I was refuting the idea that it's a "masterpiece".

Exactly. When I bitch about TNG being treated as the Gold Standard for Trek shows, that doesn't mean I'm bashing TNG. I watched the show religiously back in the day, enjoyed it very much (after the first season or so), have written at least four TNG novels, and will cop to feeling a genuine pang of nostalgia when Will and Deanna popped up a few weeks ago.

TNG was a great show. I only object to people assuming that "STAR TREK" equals "like TNG." I prefer more variety in my Trek, as opposed to insisting that, say, vanilla is the only "real" ice cream. One can enjoy vanilla and chocolate-chip mint, depending on what you're in the mood for.

 

[cooleddie74]

Is it me or do people not get narrative structure. The Heroes are the one who bring hope. That's true for all series. I don't understand this. Do people really want a travelogue of the Federation and how wonderful it is.

That even applies to antiheroes. Look at the Godfather movies. The Corleones are in many respects morally repugnant people who do horrible things but to the extent positive and heroic messages are conveyed they're conveyed by the Corleones who are the protagonists in a world of people even worse than they.

Somebody has to be the "good guy" and the narrative is under their direction.

 

[Lt.Smokey]

I love Picard, I think it's a great show and the story's are good, though as Seven of Nine says it lacks hope.
The one thing I relied on with Star Trek was that the Federation was an organisation that instilled hope and it just doesn't seem to giving that level to me and is a bit bleak, we haven't solved any problems and they're all still the ones we currently have.. or is that just me?

Haven't seen ep 8? It answered any lingering questions I had on this.

My takeaway from Trek was never that the Federation instills hope but that hope exists inside of humanity itself. The federation is overall good, but flawed like any political organization and it takes good people to correct those flaws again and again. If the Federation reaches perfection, then Trek is dead, IMO.

 

[Greg Cox]

And, honestly, any "utopia" in which everybody is evolved and civilized all the time, and never swears or smokes or loses their temper or makes bad decisions or whatever, sounds more like some sort of dystopia to me.

Of the sort that Captain Kirk would probably blow up.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'd launch a trilithium probe into that utopia's Sun and in a Vulcan heartbeat.

 

[Lynx]

DS9 is WAY better.

Well, I have to agree with that. I really like DS9 and its characters.

But still I see TNG as a masterpiece and so also the first three seasons of Voyager.

 

[Lynx]

I didn't say I didn't like TNG, I was refuting the idea that it's a "masterpiece".

Stop assuming shit.

I'm not assuming anything. I just got the impression that you weren't too fond of TNG.

Now when that is sorted out, I must state that I still find TNG a masterpiece and that Star trek reached its highest point with TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of Voyager.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

I love Picard, I think it's a great show and the story's are good, though as Seven of Nine says it lacks hope.

Where exactly does Seven say that?

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, I think that TNG is a masterpiece.
I assume that you don't like TNG. Now tell me what's better.

There is a huge gulf between "I don't think TNG is a masterpiece" and "I don't like TNG."

Now, I personally do not like TNG. I prefer shows like SG-1, Farscape, or Seaquest over TNG. None of those I would classify as "masterpieces of fiction," though they have their moments.

TNG is a fun show, at times. But, I would not call it a masterpiece. But, then, there are few shows I would use that moniker about. I think that TOS' "Balance of Terror" qualifies.