Least favorite Trek

[ktanner3]

BigFoot said:
TNG... it's just so preachy. It also hasn't aged very well.

I agree that TNG hasn't aged well, but at least it was good for its time. Voyager on the other hand ditched its premise after the first episode and was never consistent. I loved Janeway and just wish that the show had better writers who knew how to write good stories.And to be honest, a show about a lost ship or people trying to find their way home is nothing new.

 

[ktanner3]

3. I really, really, REALLY cannot stand that smug superiority that characterizes the TNG crew. The view that they are perfect, can do no wrong, and that they are there to 'instruct' other races in the 'correct' view of the universe is exceedingly annoying. And incidentally, has become even MORE annoying during my own country's current Presidential administration.

I can't stand this about the show either. Season 1 was really bad about this. "Costumes like that"? I wore one of those costumes thank you very much and it wasn't because I enjoyed killing people.It was for defending my country. And for someone like him who is wearing tight fitting jumpsuits that's quite a statement.I'll take my old marine dress blues anyday over those bland pieces of pajamas they were wearing.

 

[Jeri]

Vonstadt said:
I am a TOS fan, it is my favorite show of the franchise, but I've never since I've joined this board ever seen such a bias as to warrent this board to be called DS9 run.

Maybe not DS-9 run, but it's weighted toward a Niner board. I've been here 6 years, and it's always been that way. A few years ago, a grad student came in and did a bbs-wide poll for a project. It turned out that the largest percentage of the respondents had DS-9 as their favorite show -- and that of those respondents, Niners were the most likely (40%) to like no other Trek show at all.

I read in Discover magazine that the online community isn't representative, but rather associative: that is, people of like opinions tend to gather together. With that in mind, it's not hard to figure how this happened and that it can happen.

I always disliked DS-9, and I spent the $700 on the entire set and watched it all, and I still disliked it. I wanted to know what happened in that part of the Trek story; but believe me when I say, I had no trouble waiting at the end of a season set for the next season set to come out.

My favorite is TOS, with VOY being my favorite modern Trek. I like STNG and ENT fine and have bought all the boxed sets. I watched TOS starting in 1966.

So even though this is a Niner board, I still pays my money and am a premium member, because I'm a Trek fan. I would pay more than they ask now, because it's a good board. And I still have hope that one day I won't dislike DS-9...

 

[Anwar]

ktanner3 said:

3. I really, really, REALLY cannot stand that smug superiority that characterizes the TNG crew. The view that they are perfect, can do no wrong, and that they are there to 'instruct' other races in the 'correct' view of the universe is exceedingly annoying. And incidentally, has become even MORE annoying during my own country's current Presidential administration.

I can't stand this about the show either. Season 1 was really bad about this. "Costumes like that"? I wore one of those costumes thank you very much and it wasn't because I enjoyed killing people.It was for defending my country. And for someone like him who is wearing tight fitting jumpsuits that's quite a statement.I'll take my old marine dress blues anyday over those bland pieces of pajamas they were wearing.

Dude, they're only acting that way to us because it's how we act to our own past. I'm sure there are military guys today who think the kinds of military uniforms guys 400 years ago wore were "costumes".

So they are acting like normal people, it's just that it's in a way we take offense to even though we do the same stuff ourselves.

 

[Goji]

Enterprise by a mile. At least Voyager had a few sporadic good episodes ("Scorpion", "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy") and a few interesting characters (Tom Paris, Kes, Doctor). Enterprise had... exactly squat.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Jeri said:

Vonstadt said:
I am a TOS fan, it is my favorite show of the franchise, but I've never since I've joined this board ever seen such a bias as to warrent this board to be called DS9 run.

Maybe not DS-9 run, but it's weighted toward a Niner board. I've been here 6 years, and it's always been that way. A few years ago, a grad student came in and did a bbs-wide poll for a project. It turned out that the largest percentage of the respondents had DS-9 as their favorite show -- and that of those respondents, Niners were the most likely (40%) to like no other Trek show at all.

I read in Discover magazine that the online community isn't representative, but rather associative: that is, people of like opinions tend to gather together. With that in mind, it's not hard to figure how this happened and that it can happen.

I always disliked DS-9, and I spent the $700 on the entire set and watched it all, and I still disliked it. I wanted to know what happened in that part of the Trek story; but believe me when I say, I had no trouble waiting at the end of a season set for the next season set to come out.

My favorite is TOS, with VOY being my favorite modern Trek. I like STNG and ENT fine and have bought all the boxed sets. I watched TOS starting in 1966.

So even though this is a Niner board, I still pays my money and am a premium member, because I'm a Trek fan. I would pay more than they ask now, because it's a good board. And I still have hope that one day I won't dislike DS-9...

Well, so what if there are a fair number of DS9 fans here?

To say that there is a bias as to how the board is RUN is ridiculous...because last I checked, the board runner is primarily a TOS fan.


Sure there are alot of DS9 fans here. But there are also alot of TOS fans and TNG fans and ENT fans here. I do think there are fewer VOY fans here....but I don't think that has anything to do with who ELSE hangs out here. And further, last I checked, anyone can register and post - we don't ask you if you like VOY or not...and then reject your application if you do. Nor do we run around at Trek conventions and try to get Niners to sign up for TrekBBS in order to stack some imaginary deck in a bunch of pointless and ridiculous polls.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason there are DS9 fans here is because....DS9 might just be a decent show?

Not everything is a Big Conspiracy, you know. Believe me, we don't have secret meetings during which we plan the take-over of TrekBBS.


My view is that I just don't think there are alot of VOY fans PERIOD - not just here, but anywhere. And I say that as someone who likes VOY and considers myself a fan! It's just not that popular. And that doesn't have anything to do with any sort of so-called DS9 'bias'. No one is twisting anyone's arm or holding a gun to anyone's head. Nor is the boardrunner or staff biased toward DS9 - writing or applying the board rules to favor DS9 fans. If a person registers here and likes VOY, no one - staff or fellow poster - can persuade them otherwise. At least, they could never persuade ME otherwise. And the reverse is true as well.

It's really funny...when TOS or TNG wins a poll around here, there are never any outcries of bias. But when DS9 is winning or wins ANYTHING, it's the same 'ole tedious story - usually generated by the same posters: the board is bias toward DS9 fans, DS9 fans are arrogant jerks, blah, blah blah.

Just a few weeks ago, TOS and TNG did MUCH better than DS9 in the 'favorite episode' poll. There were no outcries of bias - by anyone. You certainly didn't see all the DS9 fans sitting around complaining about bias. And of course the ones who usually complain about bias toward DS9 won, so they forgot all about this so-called bias - at least temporarily...UNTIL DS9 started winning something again around here. Then they conveniently pull it out again, just like clockwork. It's like they simply cannot STAND for DS9 to win ANYTHING.

I just don't get it.

Because of this, if anything, I think there is an ANTI-DS9 'bias' on this board....because NEVER do you hear all the whining and moaning about anyone else winning anything. TNG wins? Everyone is overjoyed. TOS wins? The same. The only time you hear whining is when DS9 is actually winning something.

And frankly, it does start to get a bit annoying. I mean, how long do we have to go on with this sour grapes thing?

 

[Shree]

Voyager.

Who knows, maybe it has some really great episodes, but I just can't get past the crew. It's just my opinion. They aren't very likable. One of these days I'll make myself sit down & give them a fair shot, simply because they are part of Star Trek.

 

[Keith1701]

blakbyrd said:
Voyager.

ok, I will second that....

 

[23skidoo]

I'll never understand the hatred towards Enterprise. For me, Voyager was much worse, so much so that it remains the only Trek series that I gave up on (and even so, I sat tough for 3 seasons before deciding to hell with it, unlike folks who turned off Enterprise after the first 20 minutes it seems).

Cheers

Alex

 

[Jeri]

PKTrekGirl, I was addressing Vonstadt, who doesn't think the board membership is weighted toward DS-9 -- and also assumed that if someone doesn't like DS-9, it must be because they haven't seen it, which is an assumption I heard a lot over the last six years.

You won't find in my post where I said there is a bias to how the board is run, and neither will you find where I said there are a lot of VOY fans, period. What is glaringly true is that DS-9 is nowhere near the most popular show outside this board, but has always had the most fans here.

So no, I don't think the reason there are so many fans here is that it's a decent show, as you said. Something else is at work; and until the board becomes representative of the outside fandom, then you will go on hearing people wonder why.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ Have to say, other boards/forums I frequent, DS9 is usually the one Star Trek show that non-Trekkers have any time for.

 

[Jeri]

Angel4576 said:
^^ Have to say, other boards/forums I frequent, DS9 is usually the one Star Trek show that non-Trekkers have any time for.

And that is borne out by the finding that Niners have the highest number of fans who like no other Trek show.

 

[TheCoxinator]

Voyager. Dull characters and plots. Then TNG. They were just so uninvolving. Enterprise, DS9 and TOS had characters I was actually interested in. And in ENT and DS9's case it felt like they were actually doing something important rather than just running into the weekly bumpy fore headed enemy or phenomenon.

 

[Angel4576]

Jeri said:

Angel4576 said:
^^ Have to say, other boards/forums I frequent, DS9 is usually the one Star Trek show that non-Trekkers have any time for.

And that is borne out by the finding that Niners have the highest number of fans who like no other Trek show.

To me that would also suggest that there's a quality to DS9 that the others don't have. In some way, shape or form it's diverse in the Star Trek franchise. That should be applauded. It was quite a risk to venture so far from the established template/formula. It doesn't surprise me that after such a brave attempt at exploring different themes and narrative that people were just turned off by the shows that followed it.

You can put me down as a DS9 fan that came to it off the back of loving TOS and TNG, and I still do. It was with Voyager and later Enterprise that the franchise really lost a lot of the respect that it had across the genre.

 

[Jeri]

Angel4576 , I don't think it was a big risk; I think they didn't know what to do next and had to try something else. And as it happened, DS-9 lost more viewers than any other show -- approximately half the viewers from STNG; that's why they went back to the TNG well. VOY and ENT didn't get more ratings, but DS-9 wasn't the answer either.

 

[TrekAlliance92]

DS9. It had a promising start with the first three seasons and Trek-like episodes such as "Move Along Home," "Second Sight," "Q-Less" and so on. But, it later lost the optimism about the future and became too bogged down in the Dominion War. It still had some good episodes here and there, but too much Dominion War stuff and they didn't even answer the question if Bajor joined the Federation.

And, as an aside, wow to the Voyager hate here. It's my favorite Trek series. I also love Enterprise (my third favorite, just behind TOS).

 

[Angel4576]

I'd have to disagree there. They could quite easily have tapped the ship/Enterprise-based well again if they'd wanted to. Granted it would have aired a few years later than it ultimately did, giving TNG time to wrap up the existing Enterprise D adventures before moving on to a new group/ship.

From the DVD interviews with Piller and Berman they stated pretty early on in the process that this show would be different. Their first idea was that the show should be planet-based, on a colony world. They went through various ideas before finally settling on a space station.

Up until that point they'd pretty much always relied on the alien/planet of the week formula for the most part, and the constant use of the BRB. Both essentially ditched for the new series. By restricting the nature of the show to being somewhat static the writers were IMO forced to write much tighter than had previously been the case, the character development in particular benefitted, as did the ongoing narrative. As formatting goes, DS9 follows a completely different template.

Did it work? On some levels. Critically it's well liked, which can't really be said of any subsequent series. The effect on the numbers is more difficult to gauge, given that the synication market had become a lot more fragmented than when TNG was airing just a few years before. Both Voyager and Enterprise had a network behind them, granted, a fledgling network, but given that Voyager was hailed as the network's flagship (which IMO is the only reason it lasted seven seasons, UPN saving face), and the publicity that surrounded it, the numbers were little short of disastrous. By the time that Enterprise ultimately aired, there seemed little point.

Some parts of Star Trek will always be fondly remembered, TOS, TNG and DS9 for me show the franchise at its best. To me, Voyager and Enterprise highlight just how far a franchise can full from grace.

 

[Jeri]

Angel4576 said:
I'd have to disagree there. They could quite easily have tapped the ship/Enterprise-based well again if they'd wanted to.

And they eventually did, with less ratings success; which is, I assume, what they suspected. Going in another direction was their only other choice. And I also suspect that's why they let them continue, despite the terrifying ratings plunge. They had no other option.

 

[Angel4576]

As far as the ratings went, DS9 was still the number two rated show in syndication. The sharpness of dropoff was more in line with the fragmentation of the syndication market. By the time DS9 finished airing the syndication landscape looked quite different to how it did in TNG's day.

 

[Jeri]

Angel4576 said:
As far as the ratings went, DS9 was still the number two rated show in syndication. The sharpness of dropoff was more in line with the fragmentation of the syndication market. By the time DS9 finished airing the syndication landscape looked quite different to how it did in TNG's day.

You can't use market fragmentation as an argument both for DS-9 and against the other sequels. UPN was never a match for Fox.

The point was whether DS-9 was a courageous gamble, and my contention is that it was not. They had two choices: stay the course or do something different. Seven years of STNG was a long time.