That I agree with.
Kirk's death
- Thread starter indycar
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That I agree with.
I prefer the "heat stroke" theory.
Picard saved the day somehow, but everything he remembers was the result of being dehydrated and stuck on a burning desert rock for hours in a black uniform. It explains most of the plot holes, and Kirk was just a figment of his imagination.
They were doing it for all the mainstream movie fans who were familiar with the TOS movies but never watched TNG. From a corporate point of view, I can certainly see the logic in wanting a "transitional" movie with both crews. They just came up with a bad story to do it, is all.
Of course, featuring Shatner in the first TNG movie (or Nimoy in the first reboot movie) also sends the message that the new crew needs training wheels their first time out (and I REALLY thought that was the case when they brought Nimoy back again for STID).
I thought TNG cast and the main actors, Stewart, Frakes and Burton could carry a picture on their own. The producers missed an opportunity to make a Borg trilogy, and wasted it trying to make the Borg like James Cameron's ALIENS.
I liked Data, as much as I liked Worf, and Dr. Crusher, but to boost his screen time was a huge mistake. I thought Data works better when used in small intervals than being a co-star. If the producers wanted to have Data use the emotion chip; I would've preferred him to be how he was in ALL GOOD THINGS.
The fact of matter is Berman was a suit and he thought about BO numbers when making his films. Too many times in interviews he stated he wanted his films to be like THE VOYAGE HOME. It explains why most of his films dealt with time oriented plots to hopefully repeat TYH success; to his credit FIRST CONTACT was a huge success in the 90's, a film I despise.
I liked Data, as much as I liked Worf, and Dr. Crusher, but to boost his screen time was a huge mistake. I thought Data works better when used in small intervals than being a co-star. If the producers wanted to have Data use the emotion chip; I would've preferred him to be how he was in ALL GOOD THINGS.
The fact of matter is Berman was a suit and he thought about BO numbers when making his films. Too many times in interviews he stated he wanted his films to be like THE VOYAGE HOME. It explains why most of his films dealt with time oriented plots to hopefully repeat TYH success; to his credit FIRST CONTACT was a huge success in the 90's, a film I despise.
Arrest him for what? This comes up from time to time and it still doesn't make sense, you can't arrest somebody for something they haven't done.
All of them were unknown quantities when it came to movies in 1994. I can see why the studio wanted a little box office insurance in the form of Shatner, Whoopi Goldberg, and Malcolm McDowell.
I think a Borg trilogy would've gotten pretty dull pretty quickly. Their uniformity makes them pretty tough to write as villains. That's why they usually introduced a character who was different from the collective like Locutus, the Borg Queen, Hugh, Lore, or Seven of Nine.
I'd say the real missed opportunity with the TNG movies was doing a movie with Q.
Data was clearly one of the most popular TNG characters, so I can certainly see why he was given prominence in the movies. Giving him the emotion chip and having him suddenly act like Shecky Greene was certainly a mistake, though (Notice how much they sweep the emotion chip under the rug in First Contact, by having Data turn it off with a twitch of the head).
It was lame on every level.
TPTB thought that Star Trek was on solid ground commercially and that they didn't need their old iconic characters...They were wrong. It wasn't until Star Trek 09 and the return of Leonard Nimoy and the characters of TOS did Star Trek truly have a run away commercial hit that made the series relevant again after Kirk's useless death.
The people behind the scenes at Star Trek should have noticed the run away success of Star Wars: The Force Awakens and realized that a huge part of the commercial success of the film was the return of Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher etc, they were the ones that made TFA into a major event...For the 50th Anniversary Shater, Takei etc, (Orci had Shatner + Nimoy in his script for this film that was deemed to "Star Trekie"/no popping wheelies) would have brought a lot of excitement/media attention to the film...Instead we get Kirk popping wheelies from the director of the Fast and the Furious #wasted opportunity
TPTB thought that Star Trek was on solid ground commercially and that they didn't need their old iconic characters...They were wrong. It wasn't until Star Trek 09 and the return of Leonard Nimoy and the characters of TOS did Star Trek truly have a run away commercial hit that made the series relevant again after Kirk's useless death.
The people behind the scenes at Star Trek should have noticed the run away success of Star Wars: The Force Awakens and realized that a huge part of the commercial success of the film was the return of Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher etc, they were the ones that made TFA into a major event...For the 50th Anniversary Shater, Takei etc, (Orci had Shatner + Nimoy in his script for this film that was deemed to "Star Trekie"/no popping wheelies) would have brought a lot of excitement/media attention to the film...Instead we get Kirk popping wheelies from the director of the Fast and the Furious #wasted opportunity
First Contact was slightly more profitable than 09 and their sequels also were comparable domestically so financial success neither depends on nor is real likely with the original characters.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117731/business?ref_=tt_ql_dt_4
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/business?ref_=tt_ql_dt_4
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120844/business?ref_=tt_ql_dt_4
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1408101/business?ref_=tt_ql_dt_4
Have Picard step into Sisko's shoes ala 'In the Pale Moonlight'- you do a personal evil for a greater good and have to deal with the baggage. Soren was wiping out entire star systems to redirect the Nexus Ribbon with no consideration to the populations- I say he forfeits criminal procedure. Soren was already injured on the station, just finish him off and come to grips with it emotionally.
I quite like the TNG films despite their problems.
But there are a number of big problems. I know people like Data and the emotion chip arc but I think it was overplayed. At times he's doing a blasted variety act.
I'm also jaded with the borg, time travel and Picard running around like Rambo and going mad. Picard going around like Rambo and going mad are the writers scrapping the bottom of the barrel with the character of Picard.
That said, I like the films despite all that. But they're basically TV movies, IMO, they largely lack the epic quality of some of the TOS films and I'm surprised that they did as well as they did at the BO.
But there are a number of big problems. I know people like Data and the emotion chip arc but I think it was overplayed. At times he's doing a blasted variety act.
I'm also jaded with the borg, time travel and Picard running around like Rambo and going mad. Picard going around like Rambo and going mad are the writers scrapping the bottom of the barrel with the character of Picard.
That said, I like the films despite all that. But they're basically TV movies, IMO, they largely lack the epic quality of some of the TOS films and I'm surprised that they did as well as they did at the BO.
Picard is no more Sisko than Sisko was Picard as Sisko reminded Q. And really we have proof of any any star systems being destroyed before they met Soran.
That would have been difficult three years after Roddenberry died.
I think Roddenberry himself came to have issues with Kirk, especially as he was in portrayed in the movies after the first one. Berman could have had some resentment about how much Shatner and the actors rather than writers/producers are credited for the success.
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Worse still, by arresting Soran in the past, Picard would be letting the Klingon sisters go. And Soran just blows up stars to steer the Nexus. The Cleavage Cabal would blow up stars to destroy the Federation and rule the Klingon Empire!
By arresting Soran in the present, Picard could rest assured that the Klingons were already under arrest... Or at least can't be faulted for thinking so.
Timo Saloniemi
The series did this too though - each pilot of the spin-offs has an appearance from a star of another series as a 'pass the torch' thing - McCoy in Enounter at Farpoint, Picard in Emissary (more than just a cameo - on par with Spock in the 09 movie), Quark in Caretaker, even Broken Bow has a cameo from James Cromwell reprising Zefram Cochrane from 'Star Trek: First Contact' (of course the character was played by another actor in TOS!).
And another thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHANrzMSlk
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Depends how you look at the figures. You have to take into account inflation and DVD sales to work out "profitable" and factor in nowadays how there is a lot more movies being
made.
If you want to say that FC made 5 times its budget and ST09 did rubbish compared to that, then compare FC to "Paranormal".
Obviously FC was a success in Paramounts eyes but so was ST09 . Both have had at least 2 movies made after it.
But if that were the case it means that the events of First Contact-Nemesis took place in the Nexus. That is impossible because the Borg from the Enterprise episode Regeneration would have never existed because they are the same Borg from First Contact. He had to of left the Nexus in order for the chain of events to occur.
Hi,
Long time reader, first time posting. I had to put my two cents in.
Am I the only one that realizes Prime Kirk is still alive? Not an echo, the actual Prime Kirk from TOS and first 7 Star Trek movies.
Picard and Kirk came out of the Nexus and into a reality where Soran had yet to succeed in his plan. Picard and Kirk save the day and we see the Nexus fly overhead and everybody is saved.
Inside that Nexus that flew overhead is the Kirk from the Enterprise-B 70 years earlier. He never left that Nexus. He left the Nexus from the reality that everybody died in, the reality that Soran succeeded in his plan. The same reality where the crew of the Enterprise-D met their fate.
Having Picard and Kirk show up from the Nexus of the reality where everybody dies would not magically make Prime Kirk disappear from the Nexus of the reality where everybody is saved. In essence, we would have two Kirks occupying that reality, just like we had two Spocks (Nimoy/Quinto) occupy the new reality.
Does this make sense to anybody but me?
http://crambam.proboards.com/thread/458/why-kirk-prime-alive-using
This guy breaks it down much better. This theory uses tried an true Star Trek logic. None of this is impossible. If Voyager can be duplicated with a spacial session and Sisko can travel back in time to the and impersonate a historical figure from Earth then Kirk can still be alive in the TNG/DS9/VOY/Romulus destroyed reality Nexus.
Long time reader, first time posting. I had to put my two cents in.
Am I the only one that realizes Prime Kirk is still alive? Not an echo, the actual Prime Kirk from TOS and first 7 Star Trek movies.
Picard and Kirk came out of the Nexus and into a reality where Soran had yet to succeed in his plan. Picard and Kirk save the day and we see the Nexus fly overhead and everybody is saved.
Inside that Nexus that flew overhead is the Kirk from the Enterprise-B 70 years earlier. He never left that Nexus. He left the Nexus from the reality that everybody died in, the reality that Soran succeeded in his plan. The same reality where the crew of the Enterprise-D met their fate.
Having Picard and Kirk show up from the Nexus of the reality where everybody dies would not magically make Prime Kirk disappear from the Nexus of the reality where everybody is saved. In essence, we would have two Kirks occupying that reality, just like we had two Spocks (Nimoy/Quinto) occupy the new reality.
Does this make sense to anybody but me?
http://crambam.proboards.com/thread/458/why-kirk-prime-alive-using
This guy breaks it down much better. This theory uses tried an true Star Trek logic. None of this is impossible. If Voyager can be duplicated with a spacial session and Sisko can travel back in time to the and impersonate a historical figure from Earth then Kirk can still be alive in the TNG/DS9/VOY/Romulus destroyed reality Nexus.
Strongly disagree with this. TMP looks 'epic', but the rest are definitely of mixed quality.
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