I agree, that's a great idea.
Combine it with my idea of having Spock in the Nexus instead of Guinan, and you have the perfect movie!
Kirk's death
- Thread starter indycar
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I agree, that's a great idea.
Combine it with my idea of having Spock in the Nexus instead of Guinan, and you have the perfect movie!
Perhaps not done ala Shaterverse, but after subduing Soren and not diverting the Nexus, Kirk should continue to exist in the 24th century.
Well, he did. But he was dead, so...
But only if it was Picard instead of Kirk.
What a great end to the TV show that would have been.
I would have loved Generations even more if Picard had died under that bridge. I mean he was the Captain, it was his responsibility and it would have been terribly realistic.
And Picard had no family so nobody needed to know about it. There would have been hardly any lines to change if they interchanged Kirk and Picard.
I'm not a TNG fan, but that would have elevated the film and brought more emotion to said film....and give relevance to that scene where Picard cries over the death of his nephew and brother.
Kirk could then take command of the Enterprise E. Afterall (biologically) Kirk is the same age as Picard was in TNG season two. Shatner would've liked that.
IMO that would be a better more poignant ending. Not so certain Kirk could be given command of the E-E.
No, Picard's speech at the end of the movie showed taht he'd moved on from his grief. Kirk's time was over and his death meant something. The point of the movie was to pass the torch to the next generation.
Picard was grief stricken his brother an d his family died. they should of taken thta out fo the screen play. have picard die then 13 years later show picards nephew in starfleet acdemy.
His death had no punch because it took place in an awful movie and was so obviously shoehorned, no more like jack hammered, into the plot to pass the torch.
Further, the whole gist of his death is that Picard's character was written as such an effeminate pussy that fought like the stereotype of an effeminate pussy that he had to rip Kirk from dream Valhalla just so a real man could beat up the scrawny guy from Clockwork Orange in a fist fight.
And, Kirk dies because in the 24th century they apparently use 18th century cast iron chain and bolts for scaffolding.
Blame Shatner, he took the part in the film.
It was a crappy film and is still a crappy film.
I prefer to ignore it and if there is one saving grace from JJs reboot is that it wipes the next Gen from existence.
Further, the whole gist of his death is that Picard's character was written as such an effeminate pussy that fought like the stereotype of an effeminate pussy that he had to rip Kirk from dream Valhalla just so a real man could beat up the scrawny guy from Clockwork Orange in a fist fight.
And, Kirk dies because in the 24th century they apparently use 18th century cast iron chain and bolts for scaffolding.
Blame Shatner, he took the part in the film.
It was a crappy film and is still a crappy film.
I prefer to ignore it and if there is one saving grace from JJs reboot is that it wipes the next Gen from existence.
I wonder why TOS was ever mentioned in the movie anyway.
Surely 7 years of TNG where TOS was hardly mentioned at all meant that it didn't need a handover.
If it needed a handover, movie-wise then who were they trying to appeal to? I'm sure most TNG fans would have preferred that TOS not be referred to at all and that it was sort of an insult to them to need the legitimacy of TOS. If they were trying to appeal to the TOS fans then I think they badly missed out. The only big fans I see of Kirk's death are the TNG fans who hate TOS and don't believe Kirk deserves no better death than Tasha Yar. Then there's the general audience, who might remember Kirk and were probably thinking (Whoa does Kirk look like that) or who the hell are Kirk and Picard and why am I watching 3 old men fighting (pathetically - not coolly))? Old men can look cool fighting - see John Wayne.
Surely 7 years of TNG where TOS was hardly mentioned at all meant that it didn't need a handover.
If it needed a handover, movie-wise then who were they trying to appeal to? I'm sure most TNG fans would have preferred that TOS not be referred to at all and that it was sort of an insult to them to need the legitimacy of TOS. If they were trying to appeal to the TOS fans then I think they badly missed out. The only big fans I see of Kirk's death are the TNG fans who hate TOS and don't believe Kirk deserves no better death than Tasha Yar. Then there's the general audience, who might remember Kirk and were probably thinking (Whoa does Kirk look like that) or who the hell are Kirk and Picard and why am I watching 3 old men fighting (pathetically - not coolly))? Old men can look cool fighting - see John Wayne.
I grew up with Kirk's death scene in GEN and I remember tearing up the first time I saw that, but I think it could have been better.
I've decided to ignore what happened to Kirk in Generations because the tale doesn't make any sense. There's too many plotholes to justify anything happened in the film. Kirk is killed trying to save the Enterprise B from the energy thing. Guinnan mentions no one can escape from the Nexus to Picard and this wonderland for fills people's widest dreams.
In order to escape from the Nexus one would have to be pulled from the phenomena. Like a transporter beam.
When Picard meets Kirk and goes back to the desert planet, they were never pulled from the phenomena. They just magically left while riding horses.
One could conclude Picard never escaped the Nexus and imagined Kirk incompetently jumping on a damaged bridge which caused his death.
In order to escape from the Nexus one would have to be pulled from the phenomena. Like a transporter beam.
When Picard meets Kirk and goes back to the desert planet, they were never pulled from the phenomena. They just magically left while riding horses.
One could conclude Picard never escaped the Nexus and imagined Kirk incompetently jumping on a damaged bridge which caused his death.
It's not that I had a problem with Kirk dying per se, but because of the very fact he was larger than life, I also have long thought Kirk's death should have been ambiguous, and left for the viewer to decide.
Personally, I think had the ribbon, or an energy bolt should have just swallowed him up, where from Picard's point of view, he was killed, but from the audience perspective, he could have been taken back to the Nexus, but we don't get confirmation of either.
It's ironic how Kirk's first "death" aboard the Enterprise-B was exactly that, and that is how it should have been handled again.
I get the point that he died alone and it was prophetic and so on. And that's a fair view to hold I guess - but it if was appropriate it was by accident rather than by design.
I felt they just got "we gotta kill Kirk" in their heads and ran out of creativity thereafter. Kirk was kind of dumped on top of this film rather than smoothly integrated within it.
I felt they just got "we gotta kill Kirk" in their heads and ran out of creativity thereafter. Kirk was kind of dumped on top of this film rather than smoothly integrated within it.
That's not what Guinan said.
She said that Picard wouldn't want to leave, that if he were to enter the Nexus, he wouldn't care about anything but to stay in there, not that he couldn't physically leave if, by some miracle, he did want to.
Guinan was speaking from personal experience; her planet had been destroyed, and like Soran she had probably lost everything. When they were pulled into the Nexus, there was likely little-to-no reason why any of those refugees would want to escape their new fantasy world where they were, no doubt, reunited with their lost loved ones and could live out their lives in perfect contentment. Then they were ripped away.
Picard, on the other hand, has unfinished business in reality; he has a world to save. His mind is driving his Nexus fantasy, but his subconscious is trying to signal to him that it's not real, with the starburst effect in the Christmas tree bauble. He, like Guinan, has suffered a recent personal tragedy when he's pulled into the Nexus and is poised to stay in there with his illusory family (including the late René), but it's the realisation that he still has a purpose in his real life that compels him to leave. That realisation (along with the death of Kirk, which drives home how fragile life is) helps Picard to begin to move forward from his grief; he must live life to the full because, "After all, Number One; we're only mortal."
Maybe Picard should've went back in time to when he first meets Soran and punches him in the face and arrest him.
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