As an idea? As an effect? Or that precise moment in the film ?
I would agree with the last. The book helps it mind you.
Kirk's death
- Thread starter indycar
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As an idea? As an effect? Or that precise moment in the film ?
I would agree with the last. The book helps it mind you.
The concept was interesting and the special effect of the energy ribbon looked great, but these scenes inside the nexus weren't done well.
Kirk's death was excellent. Easily the best part of the film.
It was the perfect symbolic conclusion to an idea that goes all the way back to WNMHGB through several episodes ("Arena" for example) and is accented in TFF.
It was the perfect symbolic conclusion to an idea that goes all the way back to WNMHGB through several episodes ("Arena" for example) and is accented in TFF.
It was better rubbish! I mean, the original version was bad, and the reshoot was better, even if it wasn't actually good.
The death scene needed two things to be good:
1) It needed to be spectacular in some way (preferably space-related).
2) It needed to directly relate to the day being saved, not be just something that happened along the way.
One thing they could have done without too much change is have Kirk be the one blown up by the missile launcher. How about this?
Picard and Soran are fighting on the side of the mountain.
SORAN: Even if you defeat me, even if you kill me, it's too late. There's nothing you can do to stop the launch.
Picard looks up and sees Kirk at the missile launcher, pressing controls. Their eyes meet. They know this is it. Kirk presses the final button. A spectacular explosion obliterates the mountain-top. Picard and Soran are lying on the ground covered in dust.
SORAN: [looking at the site of the explosion] No. No! NO!
Picard punches Soran, who falls unconscious to the ground and slides down the rocks to a lower level. The dust gradually clears from the mountain, revealing the wreckage of the gantry, and Kirk's body, which has been thrown clear. Picard climbs up and cradles the dying Kirk.
PICARD: [upset] This was my mission. It should have been me.
KIRK: Jean-Luc ... my friend. Don't be so selfish. I'm glad ... I'm glad I got to save the world, one last time. [smiles kindly] You'll have your turn. You'll have ... . [dies]
SORAN: Even if you defeat me, even if you kill me, it's too late. There's nothing you can do to stop the launch.
Picard looks up and sees Kirk at the missile launcher, pressing controls. Their eyes meet. They know this is it. Kirk presses the final button. A spectacular explosion obliterates the mountain-top. Picard and Soran are lying on the ground covered in dust.
SORAN: [looking at the site of the explosion] No. No! NO!
Picard punches Soran, who falls unconscious to the ground and slides down the rocks to a lower level. The dust gradually clears from the mountain, revealing the wreckage of the gantry, and Kirk's body, which has been thrown clear. Picard climbs up and cradles the dying Kirk.
PICARD: [upset] This was my mission. It should have been me.
KIRK: Jean-Luc ... my friend. Don't be so selfish. I'm glad ... I'm glad I got to save the world, one last time. [smiles kindly] You'll have your turn. You'll have ... . [dies]
One thing I like about this ending is it gives Picard and Kirk a bit more of a relationship, whereas in the movie they share scenes but still seem separate somehow.
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Kirk did not Need to die, as what lasting impact did it have to anyone on the E-D much less future movies and 24th century shows?
Kirk being in the film was just a promotional stunt to get seats. I'm surprised the writers, who claimed to be a Captain Kirk fan and loved TOS, would get everything wrong about the character. Nothing Kirk did in that piece of crap of a movie, I thought the Kirk I know would've done. There's an inexperienced Captain who appeared to be shaken by the moment on the Enterprise and Kirk decides to play... engineer??? The Kirk I knew would've took command and ordered the Chief Engineer to go down and fix the problem.
I doubt Kirk would play second banana to Captain Picard; he's a great strategist, the Kirk I knew would've been telling Picard how to work the Soran situation to their advantages. Not jump on a broken bridge to press a button on a remote. Shitting all over an icon just to make their character Picard look better destroys any reason Kirk needed to be there. And one of them claimed to be a die hard Star Trek fan at that???
I was so glad that "so called fan" didn't get his hands on Voyager in season 6 before he totally ruined that show as he was a "fan" of DS9 in season 3.
I doubt Kirk would play second banana to Captain Picard; he's a great strategist, the Kirk I knew would've been telling Picard how to work the Soran situation to their advantages. Not jump on a broken bridge to press a button on a remote. Shitting all over an icon just to make their character Picard look better destroys any reason Kirk needed to be there. And one of them claimed to be a die hard Star Trek fan at that???
I was so glad that "so called fan" didn't get his hands on Voyager in season 6 before he totally ruined that show as he was a "fan" of DS9 in season 3.
In a pseudo defense: after decades in the Nexus Kirk's martial skills have atrophied away?
As far as I'm concerned, Kirk was rescued from the Nexxus almost immediately either by the Enterprise-B or by Spock and Scotty working together. Picard met Kirk's echo in the Nexxus, just like he met Guinan's echo.
Yes, I know that this doesn't exactly jibe with what the movie told us about how the Nexxus works, but I don't really care. The screenwriters made things up willy-nilly to suit their purposes of the moment, so I'm just doing the same.
Love the idea. It makes more sense then any of the convoluted other ways it could be handled, AND fixes the continuity error of Scotty thinking Kirk found him when he got out of the transporter buffer.
I was just about to post something similar..... that would have been fantastic. It would have fit both charactres to a T. Picard and his commitment to duty..... Kirk, and his uncanny ability to cheat death. With Spock and Scotty firmly established in the 24th century, it would have been a groundbreaking and fantastic way to merge the two franchises into a series of moives we could barely imagine. Imagine First Contact, with KIRK at the helm of the Enterprise E, facing off against the Borg, and meeting Cochrane for the SECOND time? Then rewrite Nemesis so its Patrick Stewart as the Romulan clone, to bring him back to the franchise as well.Kirk could then take command of the Enterprise E. Afterall (biologically) Kirk is the same age as Picard was in TNG season two. Shatner would've liked that.
It would be STIV all over again. The brand new Enterprise going to the Federation's Greatest Hero, returned from the dead..... I honestly couldn't picture it happening any other way.
Can we find the alternate universe where this happened?
If anything needed to be fixed on the Enterprise B it shouldve been Scotty along with the ship's engineer who should've been there. Come on, Ronald D. Moore, get your head out of Berman's ass!
Wasn't Scott given Spock's lines?
To that I would say in Kirks mind he'd only just got there.
I don't know why many in this thread are so eager to make excuses and defend Generations... it's not necessary.
The film... Objectively was a poorly thought out and written mess.
There is speculation that lines for Spock and Bones might have been divvied up among the available actors, but there's no evidence.
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