Jennifer Lien

[exodus]

To me Kes was like my little sister.One that you would like to protect.
To do away with her was unthinkable. and sad.
I think that many folks felt the same way.
I wonder if we would feel the same way about her,if she stayed on to the very end.
We will never know.
Thank goodness for the three years that she was on.

I agree on your statement.

As for the question about how we would have felt about her if she had stayed the whole show, it would have depended on the storyline for the character.

However, she was brilliant during those years she was in the series.

As for the character herself, some posters have stated that she was "dull" or "meek". I disagree on that. I never found her dull in any way. In fact, one of the best things with the character was that she was both a contrast and a complement to more standard Star trek female characters like Janeway and Torres. And Kes could be tough and strong-willed too. Don't forget how she saved the ship when she stood up against the Bothan in "Persistence Of Vision". She was very brave then.

She also saved the ship in "Cold Fire", she defied the Elder Toscat in "Caretaker", not to mention that she actually left the cavse to see the sun which was brave considering the fact that it was unknown territory for the Ocampa.

She saved The Doctor in "The Swarm" and she persuaded Tuvok to go back for Janeway and Chakotay in "Resolutions" and don't forget how she fought Tieran when he had taken control over her in "Warlord".

Kes is nice and friendly but also brave and strong-willed. as such she has more depth and quality than many standard stereotype females in many series.

All this praise and gushing you're doing over Kes right now, was written and created by the same people you wanted to fire a moment ago.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There were too many cooks in the kitchen.

Some of them ignored Jennifer, some gave her a tight black leather catsuit and a killing spree, meanwhile others decided to wash there hands of her.

All Braga wanted to do was write about Borg and Time travel, and all Berman wanted was for some one else to do his work. God knows what Jeri Taylor wanted but they fired her for it.

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Jeri Taylor only wanted to write for Janeway.

 

[Saquist]

I am confused. Was she kicked off the show or did she quit?
Also, if she had stayed on how do you think her character would have changed if at all and how would the show itself have been different is she had stayed on all 7 years?

They kicked her because they would have to measure and produce costly protestics and makeup to progress her aging which would have taken more production time and quite un fair to the actress. The simplest thing was to have her leave.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Jeri Taylor retired. And Admiral Shran is right, she wanted to write Janeway. And preferablly J/C

 

[Guy Gardener]

Saquist?

I'm not completely sure how you can type that with straight fingers.

Did you see what the hedgehog had to go through every day?

And then there's the dozens and dozens of aliens who were regulars on DS9.

 

[Thestral]

Saquist?

I'm not completely sure how you can type that with straight fingers.

Did you see what the hedgehog had to go through every day?

And then there's the dozens and dozens of aliens who were regulars on DS9.

That may have been the most lucid thing I've ever seen you post.


Anyway, I really liked Kes and Jen Lien and I would've far preferred her staying to Garret Wang (whose only really good ep was Timeless, though in fairness it was excellent). And Neelix would've been fine to get rid of too; his stuff with Naomi Wildman could've been done by Kes. Keep her and add Seven? Sounds good to me.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There were too many cooks in the kitchen.

Some of them ignored Jennifer, some gave her a tight black leather catsuit and a killing spree, meanwhile others decided to wash there hands of her.

I can't believe I'm saying this..

They should have put that milquetoast in a black catsuit in season ONE and made Neelix her little toady slave and given her designs, yes DESIGNS on eventual quadrant domination. Then she would have been interesting.

^ Jeri Taylor only wanted to write for Janeway.

Excellent.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Just like Seska?

Kes was like a kitten half the time treating everything and everyone like a ball of string... When ever she made it out from under Neelix's shadow.

Dala even with a hint and threat of Federation technology managed to build up an impressive house of cards...

Was Janeway even trying?

The Federation was coming back to the DQ someday, so it needed allies when it retraced Janeways path out, not bitter enemies hellbent on cremating anything carrying the Federation standard.

 

[antiquityscion]

There were too many cooks in the kitchen.

Some of them ignored Jennifer, some gave her a tight black leather catsuit and a killing spree, meanwhile others decided to wash there hands of her.

I can't believe I'm saying this..

They should have put that milquetoast in a black catsuit in season ONE and made Neelix her little toady slave and given her designs, yes DESIGNS on eventual quadrant domination. Then she would have been interesting.

I wonder what Neelix's safe word would have been.

 

[exodus]

There were too many cooks in the kitchen.

Some of them ignored Jennifer, some gave her a tight black leather catsuit and a killing spree, meanwhile others decided to wash there hands of her.

I can't believe I'm saying this..

They should have put that milquetoast in a black catsuit in season ONE and made Neelix her little toady slave and given her designs, yes DESIGNS on eventual quadrant domination. Then she would have been interesting.

Actually Braga was toying with the idea for a while of making Kes a reacurring villian for Voyager. You really can't explore the full extent of her powers unless you give her a dark side.

 

[greelywinger]

I like the later Kes episodes where they stopped having her wear that pixie outfit that made her look like a little girl.

Darryl

 

[F. King Daniel]

There were too many cooks in the kitchen.

Some of them ignored Jennifer, some gave her a tight black leather catsuit and a killing spree, meanwhile others decided to wash there hands of her.

I can't believe I'm saying this..

They should have put that milquetoast in a black catsuit in season ONE and made Neelix her little toady slave and given her designs, yes DESIGNS on eventual quadrant domination. Then she would have been interesting.

I wonder what Neelix's safe word would have been.

"Mister Vulcan"

 

[Lynx]

To me Kes was like my little sister.One that you would like to protect.
To do away with her was unthinkable. and sad.
I think that many folks felt the same way.
I wonder if we would feel the same way about her,if she stayed on to the very end.
We will never know.
Thank goodness for the three years that she was on.

I agree on your statement.

As for the question about how we would have felt about her if she had stayed the whole show, it would have depended on the storyline for the character.

However, she was brilliant during those years she was in the series.

As for the character herself, some posters have stated that she was "dull" or "meek". I disagree on that. I never found her dull in any way. In fact, one of the best things with the character was that she was both a contrast and a complement to more standard Star trek female characters like Janeway and Torres. And Kes could be tough and strong-willed too. Don't forget how she saved the ship when she stood up against the Bothan in "Persistence Of Vision". She was very brave then.

She also saved the ship in "Cold Fire", she defied the Elder Toscat in "Caretaker", not to mention that she actually left the cavse to see the sun which was brave considering the fact that it was unknown territory for the Ocampa.

She saved The Doctor in "The Swarm" and she persuaded Tuvok to go back for Janeway and Chakotay in "Resolutions" and don't forget how she fought Tieran when he had taken control over her in "Warlord".

Kes is nice and friendly but also brave and strong-willed. as such she has more depth and quality than many standard stereotype females in many series.

All this praise and gushing you're doing over Kes right now, was written and created by the same people you wanted to fire a moment ago.

You're right about that.

But if you study history, then you'll know that there have been many leaders and people in charge who have built up something good, like a society or a company and then they have ruined everything because of some stupid decisions.

And history will remember them, not for what they did build up but for what they ruined.

Actually Braga was toying with the idea for a while of making Kes a reacurring villian for Voyager. You really can't explore the full extent of her powers unless you give her a dark side.

I'm not so sure about the truth in that statement. It look like an after-construction made up to defend the horrible episode "Fury". There were never anything mentioned about that during the time when Kes was in the series or between "The Gift" and "Fury".

greelywinger wrote:

I like the later Kes episodes where they stopped having her wear that pixie outfit that made her look like a little girl.

I preferred Kes in the "pixie outfit" because it was sort of a trademark for the character. She looked good later on too but then she looked more like some casual female character in any series.

 

[exodus]

You're right about that.

But if you study history, then you'll know that there have been many leaders and people in charge who have built up something good, like a society or a company and then they have ruined everything because of some stupid decisions.

And history will remember them, not for what they did build up but for what they ruined.

This is just a bait and switch tactic to avoid the issue that you flip-flop within your own argument.
History isn't going to paint Berman or Braga in any bad light and surely not due to you're disatisfaction over one character. With Berman's help, Trek under his watch became more marketable than it's ever been.
Kes wouldn't have even been made into an action figure had it not been for those you wished unemployment on. The fact that Trek just had a successful movie shows that Trek hasn't been ruined for the general mass audience.

I'm not so sure about the truth in that statement.

This statement is as hypocritical as it is laugh at loud funny due to such irony.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Naomi dressed like Kes.

Neelix was her Nanny.

Neelix dressed Naomi like Kes.

Plant a seed watch it grow.

How long was Neelix waiting to harvest Kes II?

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Guy, that's dirty! And

 

[antiquityscion]

Naomi dressed like Kes.

Neelix was her Nanny.

Neelix dressed Naomi like Kes.

Plant a seed watch it grow.

How long was Neelix waiting to harvest Kes II?

dude that's almost a haiku

 

[Guy Gardener]

But dating a one year old isn't?

Naomi is ageing perhaps twice as fast as a human being.

Naomi'll be mature enough to reach the age of consent by the time she's 8 or 9. Just like Worfs kid who was serving in the klingon Defence force when he was seven... Obviously the part would be recast after a growth spurt to an actress who is almost 20 to physically reflect her advanced maturity.

Riker made out with Data's daughter and she was only a couple days old. Actually, it was she who kind of raped his big fuzzy mouth.

All my fears about Nelix's darkside aside, I'm really curious about the subconscious reasonings behind dressing th kid just like the ocampa... Unless they stopped by Ocampa after Caretaker and she got to empty her room at her Mothers house before she signed up for the one way trip to Earth, and Naomi's wardrobe ARE literally handmedowns.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

I never said Neelix's relationship with Kes wasn't

It was.

Much more believable as a father/daughter dynamic.