Jennifer Lien

[Lynx]

As a long-time Trek fan, I'm sure that you're aware of the fact that B&B aren't that popular among Trek fans mostly because many fans think that they did screw up a good thing.

I'm also aware fans don't have any idea what's it's like to be an executive producer of a TV series or what it takes to keep one running. Not to mention that die hard fans are just a fraction of the world wide mass audience that watches Trek. So as Rick Berman correctly said: "We listen closely to fan feedback but they don't control the show." So fans need to get over the fact that Trek isn't made exclusively for them. The fact that the "fans" still don't understand Berman's track record of successes with Trek greatly out number the bad just cements the fact they have no idea what Berman does or how his job works.

When it comes to Voyager, they did annoy many fans of the show for different things. "Fury", C/7, the whole "Endgame" senario etc. That's the reason why the Voyager fans are a split-up community. Many fans prefer certain parts of the show but not all of it.

....and some fans didn't like endings to Seinfeld or LOST either.
Oh well, you can't please everybody.
Maybe you prefer no Voyager at all, then we'd never have to talk about Kes or Jen Lien at all?

In fact, Star Trek started to go down during B&B's later seasons in charge and it hasn't recovered yet.

J.J Abrams, Paramount and the millions that watched the last film & then bought the DVD & Blu-rays disagree.
Besides Norman Lear, there isn't series to date where every spin off from the original show was a success. Again, would you prefer no Voyager at all?

No, I wouldn't prefer no Voyager at all.

But that won't make me like or accept things I found highly annoying.

I'm aware of the fact that "fans don't control the show" and I don't expect that either. If I was in charge, I would be the one to decide.

But still I do think that someone in charge must see where the wind blows and maybe adjust some of the storytelling after that. I mean, if I decided to put a main character on ice and people would start to demant that the character returns, then I wouldn't kill off or ruin the character.

"Fury" was a downright insult to the Kes fans and "Endgame" was showing the finger to some of the most ardent and loyal fans of the show. I don't call such acts "listening closely to fan feedback", I rather call it deliberate insults.

as for the success for the latest movie, I do think that some of that success depended on Trek fans being starved for new Trek things for years and therefore ran to the nearest movie to watch it. Personally I found it acceptable but for some things which really annoyed me, like the screwing up of established Trek history, the creation of an "alternative" Trek universe and the unnecessary destruction of planets very important to both Trek history and the ongoing Trek saga.

But I guess some people find it better than no Trek at all.

Personally I just wish that we would have good Voyager books instead of the "Death Trek" stories we got now.

As for successful spin-offs, I must point out that both CSI Miami and CSI NY has succeded in that aspect. But maybe you were referring only to SF?

 

[teya]

As a long-time Trek fan, I'm sure that you're aware of the fact that B&B aren't that popular among Trek fans mostly because many fans think that they did screw up a good thing.

I'm also aware fans don't have any idea what's it's like to be an executive producer of a TV series or what it takes to keep one running. Not to mention that die hard fans are just a fraction of the world wide mass audience that watches Trek. So as Rick Berman correctly said: "We listen closely to fan feedback but they don't control the show." So fans need to get over the fact that Trek isn't made exclusively for them. The fact that the "fans" still don't understand Berman's track record of successes with Trek greatly out number the bad just cements the fact they have no idea what Berman does or how his job works.

....and some fans didn't like endings to Seinfeld or LOST either.
Oh well, you can't please everybody.
Maybe you prefer no Voyager at all, then we'd never have to talk about Kes or Jen Lien at all?

In fact, Star Trek started to go down during B&B's later seasons in charge and it hasn't recovered yet.

J.J Abrams, Paramount and the millions that watched the last film & then bought the DVD & Blu-rays disagree.
Besides Norman Lear, there isn't series to date where every spin off from the original show

But still I do think that someone in charge must see where the wind blows and maybe adjust some of the storytelling after that. I mean, if I decided to put a main character on ice and people would start to demant that the character returns, then I wouldn't kill off or ruin the character.

Thing is some folks on message boards liked Kes passionately and hated to see her go. What percentage was that of Voyager fans?


Some folks on message boards like Seven and were happy to see her arrive. What percentage was that of Voyager fans? Are there fewer Seven fans than Kes fans? I've never done a count, but just looking at discussions (plus how many people actually follow Jeri's career), I'd hazard a guess that more people liked Seven's arrival than mourned Kes's departure.


And you also have to consider the more casual fans, the folks who don't go on message boards to discuss the show. The folks who just watch the show. And most of them are perfectly content to see characters come and go, so long as their interest holds.


And the vast majority of viewers are those casual fans.

 

[Thestral]

^ But I'll bet the number of Harry Kim or Neelix fans is smaller than both.

 

[exodus]

^ But I'll bet the number of Harry Kim or Neelix fans is smaller than both.

..but not small enough to be considered giving them the boot but big enough to make PEOPLE magazine.

But still I do think that someone in charge must see where the wind blows and maybe adjust some of the storytelling after that.

If you truly understood this, then you wouldn't act like letting Jen Lien go was a personal issue.

I'm aware of the fact that "fans don't control the show" and I don't expect that either.

If you truthfully believe this....

"Fury" was a downright insult to the Kes fans and "Endgame" was showing the finger to some of the most ardent and loyal fans of the show. I don't call such acts "listening closely to fan feedback", I rather call it deliberate insults.

....then you'd know how there is no truth in this at all.

as for the success for the latest movie, I do think that some of that success depended on Trek fans being starved for new Trek things for years and therefore ran to the nearest movie to watch it. Personally I found it acceptable but for some things which really annoyed me, like the screwing up of established Trek history, the creation of an "alternative" Trek universe and the unnecessary destruction of planets very important to both Trek history and the ongoing Trek saga.

As I said before, it just shows that some fans have no idea what it is to be an executive producer or the business of TV/film industry. If they did, then they'd understand how absurd it is to take things as personal.
I also don't think you understand what "alternate universe" means.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

There's no doubt that as a whole, people liked Seven more than Kes. But are there more Harry/Neelix fans than Kes? Probably not.
I liked Kes and Neelix and believed they both deserved to stay on the show. The story ideas possible with Kes were pretty abundant.

And the arguing between lynx and exodus is so futile. Also the whole argument over firing all the writers is silly.

 

[ShatnersToupee]

You don't fire the writers because they failed at developing one character. You fire them when they're the reason your ratings are falling. Viewers didn't stop watching Voyager because of a lack of sex appeal. They stopped because they didn't care for the stories the show was telling. They didn't like plots recycled from TNG, they didn't like how quickly the show abandoned its own premise, they didn't like how bipolar its captain was being written, and they didn't like that the writers couldn't come up with even one interesting villain. What does this have to do with Kes? Simple. Them not being able to write for her is just further proof that they were creatively bankrupt. So what does Berman do? He dumps the character, keeps the writers who are responsible for the falling ratings, and hires a "babe" thinking that's what viewers really want. And while 7 of 9 gave a ratings boost, it wasn't enough to bring back a lot of the lost viewers. But apparently, he thought it was a good idea to have a babe on Enterprise too. And we saw what a big help that was.

Exodus likes to point out that none of us know what it's like to be a producer. But that's a lame defense. If your viewers are changing the channel, then you need to find out why. But judging by Berman's decision to keep bad writers and bring in some T&A, he obviously concluded that the writing wasn't the problem. It shows how little he understands his show's own fanbase, despite his claims that he listens to them. TNG's ratings took off after season 3. Why? It wasn't because they brought in a babe. It was because of the writing.

Exodus also likes to point out that these same writers delivered 4 successful movies and 3 successful TV shows. Really? Is that why Nemesis bombed. Is that why Voyager lost viewers? Is that why people gave up on Enterprise even faster? He also cites the latest film as proof that Star Trek has recovered by the damage done by B&B. But has it really? As far as I'm concerned, the Abrams film was Star Trek in name only. Same character names, same setting, and same ship. But both the writers and director clearly don't understand what Star Trek is about and what made people tune in for 40 years. The movie may have been a hit, but look at how that success was achieved. By substituting action for good storytelling.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Nemesis bombed because the franchise had been going nonstop since 1987, Star Trek needed a break. Sadly, Nemesis suffered for it.


And you probably shouldn't attack exodus for stating his opinion, well if you want the mods to step in then continue.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Nemesis bombed because the franchise had been going nonstop since 1987, Star Trek needed a break. Sadly, Nemesis suffered for it.


And you probably shouldn't attack exodus for stating his opinion, well if you want the mods to step in then continue.

So are you some sort of mini mod? I don't think he's attacking exodus at all, maybe you shouldn't over-react.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Shatnerstoupee go and read the ST:XI forum where you will discover MANY fans such as myself who have been watching this show since the TOS era who find ST:XI to be perfectly, wonderfully Trek. You state your opinion about the movie as though it's self evident fact that everyone agrees with. This is not the case.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Spec writers.

Voyager didn't have a writing staff to fire.

The Writers room mostly polished, they didn't have enough responsibility to be culpable of any wrong doing enough to be shit canned,

70 authors for a hundred and 70 episodes and Rick Berman's name stamped every single script as a writer.

They didn't have to fire anyone so much as ignore the next mail bag full of familiar names.

 

[exodus]

Nemesis bombed because the franchise had been going nonstop since 1987, Star Trek needed a break. Sadly, Nemesis suffered for it.


And you probably shouldn't attack exodus for stating his opinion, well if you want the mods to step in then continue.

Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtfulness but I'm not threatened by someone that uses speculations as if they were facts. Anyone with the slightest business sense can see thru such a paper thin rebuttal.

I don't think he's attacking exodus at all.

No, but he is trying to bait me.
Unfortunately for him, he won't catch anything.