Jayru (JSnaith's) 3D Trek

[Anthony Scott]

Glad to see the Oberth nearly done. Excited to eventually add her to my collection.

It's been quite the journey participating in the creation of the model

 

[JSnaith]

Glad to see the Oberth nearly done. Excited to eventually add her to my collection.

It's been quite the journey participating in the creation of the model

So far, one of my fav builds. When I started on the whole idea of scaling her up, I thought it could go in two directions - look stupid, or actually work. It's worked, and I'm happy with how she is turning out. Still stuff to do, but no more work will be done on her until at least tomorrow. Managed to sneak a few hours in this morning before everyone got up. My focus today has to be my partner and mum-in-law. A year is not nearly enough time to process everything.

More tomorrow.

 

[knightgrace]

Kruge’s gunner wouldn’t have one-shotted this ship.

Exactly.
The Grissom should have been so out of there by any rational definition. It may have been destroyed in the end, after a long and difficult battle, but...too many tropes are used as short cuts. This over use of short cuts indicates a lack of proper intelligence.

For example: the movie "The Age Adilane" ruined the movie for me, because that type of ending has been done too many times.

 

[JSnaith]

Exactly.
The Grissom should have been so out of there by any rational definition. It may have been destroyed in the end, after a long and difficult battle, but...too many tropes are used as short cuts. This over use of short cuts indicates a lack of proper intelligence.

For example: the movie "The Age Adilane" ruined the movie for me, because that type of ending has been done too many times.

There is a throwaway line in TSFS where Kirk asks about the Grissom firing on them, so the Grissom and the Oberth, by extension, are armed. What with is a good question. Phasers, more than likely. Some sort of probe/torpedo launcher is logical for a science ship. So I personally don't understand how the Grissom was destroyed so easily. Maybe it was just a lucky shot on the gunner's part. But regardless, it was a story plot point to show how little the Klingon's cared about life. Nothing in the film gave us a clue to the size of the Oberth or it's scale next to other Starfleet ships. The BOP was deliberately shown to be as wide as the Enterprise's saucer, much bigger than it would later be portrayed in later films and series, so by extension, the Oberth is bigger. This is my working out BTW, my opinion on the whole thing. The Apollo is the answer to the question of can the Oberth work as a ship. The answer is; scaled up, yes.

 

[B.J.]

Meh, the Grissom got caught with their pants down. Didn't have time to do anything. Right after the BoP decloaked, the captain said "We're under attack. Stand by for evasive." Then boom. Movie-era ships didn't exactly respond quickly.

As for Kirk's line about Grissom firing on them, it's possible he's not familiar with Grissom's offensive capabilities. I'm not seeing any obvious phaser or torpedo ports on the studio model.

 

[JSnaith]

Meh, the Grissom got caught with their pants down. Didn't have time to do anything. Right after the BoP decloaked, the captain said "We're under attack. Stand by for evasive." Then boom. Movie-era ships didn't exactly respond quickly.

As for Kirk's line about Grissom firing on them, it's possible he's not familiar with Grissom's offensive capabilities. I'm not seeing any obvious phaser or torpedo ports on the studio model.

There is nothing on the studio model that indicates any type of weapon - BUT, one is seen at the Battle of Wolf359 (DS9 "Emissary") and another was seen to fire phasers at the Battle of Sector 001 (FC). You don't send unarmed ships into that sort of combat. These ships were fighting. Ok, so that's during the TNG era. Could these have been upgraded Oberth's the likes of which we never got to see close up? Possibly.

Starfleet knows that the universe is an unpredictable and dangerous place. I cannot see the logic in denying them any sort of defensive weapon, even during Kirk's era. As for the lack of details on the studio model, I think we can all agree that there are problems with it.

With regards to the Grissom, yes I agree she was caught unawares. It was a lucky (for the Klingon's) shot that killed her. Regardless, at the 250m scale, she's big enough to support some phaser banks and the logical probe-come-torpedo launchers. I've built a Science Cruiser, and maybe that's not a bad thing. Kruge would have an interesting time with the Apollo - but given how combat-oriented Klingon ships are, they possibly would have been able to overwhelm and capture her. But not without receiving a bloody nose in the process.

More later.

 

[JSnaith]

• Add tractor beam emitter.
• Add spot lights for self-lighting rig.
• Self-lighting rig.
• Interior of shuttle bays.
• Shuttles (two, I think, with the other bays holding work bees and maybe a travel pod).
• Bug fixes, issue with the top of the secondary hull needs to be fixed. Wrong texture maps used in places, needs sorting.
• REMOVE pannels on the "sensor hump".

updates and pretty pictures:

Introducing the USS Apollo NCC-627 an Oberth Class Science Cruiser -

Still some work to do on the shuttles and shuttle bays, so... More soon!

 

[137th Gebirg]

YES! That thing rocks!

 

[Anthony Scott]

Amazing work on that ship and hopefully I can add her to my own collection one day

 

[BillJ]

There is a throwaway line in TSFS where Kirk asks about the Grissom firing on them, so the Grissom and the Oberth, by extension, are armed.

Works under the assumption that changes weren't made to the Grissom, to get more science gear aboard. Since everything is hush-hush about Genesis, Kirk wouldn't be in the loop on any changes to the ship for that mission.

 

[JSnaith]

YES! That thing rocks!

Thank you - she's still not finished, but at this stage I can generate some pretty pics :-)

Amazing work on that ship and hopefully I can add her to my own collection one day

Thank you - as I say, she's not finished. Just in a state I can do these humble pics with.

Works under the assumption that changes weren't made to the Grissom, to get more science gear aboard. Since everything is hush-hush about Genesis, Kirk wouldn't be in the loop on any changes to the ship for that mission.

That also presumes Starfleet had time to make such changes to a ship and get it out to the Genesis Planet. Given the Grissom had to have rendezvous with the Enterprise for David Marcus and Saavik to transfer to, and Saavik would have needed knowledge of the ship, the ranking officer (Admiral Kirk) would have been the one to brief her. That too is an assumption, but is logical. It wasn't until they got back to Spacedock that Admiral Marrow made it clear that Genesis was a taboo subject and not to be discussed.

 

[BillJ]

It wasn't until they got back to Spacedock that Admiral Marrow made it clear that Genesis was a taboo subject and not to be discussed.

That doesn't mean that Esteban and his folks weren't already under orders about Genesis. Plus, it was the Federation Council that put the kibosh on Genesis information and that only the science team could go there. Hard to tell who exactly to pin the destruction of the Grissom on, at the end of the day. Even fully rigged for combat, I doubt she would've stood much of a chance against a Bird-of-Prey that took her down in one shot.

It is one of those vague situations where a lot of explanations can fit what we see on screen.

 

[JSnaith]

Kirk & Co may not have been aware of that until they got back to Spacedock. And Esteban & Co may not have been aware, having been sent out in a rush. I get the impression from the way Esteban reacted to everything that he had not had a full briefing.

Of course, all of this presumes a lot on various things. Exposition was used to move the story along, so therefore the Grissom had to die, and it must have been a one-in-a-million shot that got her.

I totally agree, that even speced up to the standards of the Apollo, Kruge would have won the day. That period of time? Klingon ships were combat-ready, not that Starfleet weren't, but they had multimissions in mind, not just shoot-and-kill.

I may have a go at doing a Bird of Prey, as seen in TSFS, and see how she scales up against the Apollo. Don't hold me to that, I have so many projects on the back burner, it's hard to keep up with them all. Plus, I need to finish the Apollo.

More soon.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Well, fortunately, the BOP exists in about 3 or 4 scales already, depending on plot requirements, with at least 2 scales canonically named (B'rel & K'vort). Wouldn't be as much of a stretch for the ol' suspension of disbelief on that one.

 

[Mage]

You know, despite all the discussion throughout the ages on her size and the entire thing about whether or not the secondary hull can be reached and blablabla....

You made her both work in the current scale so that it makes sense AND you made her look good. I always had a soft spot for this weird design and you nailed it! Kudos my dude!

 

[publiusr]

There have been so many fan iterations--I'd love to see a chart of them--maybe this version existed due to the Grissom tragedy and Vico was one of these.

BoPs should not be the only variable size ship

 

[B.J.]

The scaling on the BoP was confusing from the beginning. The detailing on the Merchantman made it look (to me at least) to be a moderately sized ship, mostly due to the bridge-like dome. And then the BoP decloaks on top of it and looks HUGE in comparison! Actually, that may work in your favor @JSnaith with your upscaled Oberth.

 

[JSnaith]

Well, fortunately, the BOP exists in about 3 or 4 scales already, depending on plot requirements, with at least 2 scales canonically named (B'rel & K'vort). Wouldn't be as much of a stretch for the ol' suspension of disbelief on that one.

Yes... Like the Defiant, it can be scaled to fit story needs.

You know, despite all the discussion throughout the ages on her size and the entire thing about whether or not the secondary hull can be reached and blablabla....

You made her both work in the current scale so that it makes sense AND you made her look good. I always had a soft spot for this weird design and you nailed it! Kudos my dude!

Thank you - I think I have been working on this in my hind brain since I first saw the Grissom in 1984. There had to be a way to make it work, which there is - ignore the official length. Probert got it wrong; this is a bigger ship.

People are entitled to agree or disagree with me on this. It's not that I don't care, it's more a case of if you're so sure I'm wrong, prove it (of course that's not aimed at anyone specific). The issue is that the Oberth, like the BOP, was shown at various different scales throughout TNG. In fact TNG was the first time we saw an Oberth next to a Starfleet vessel. It's a bit of a mess. But here, now, we can explore the idea that the Oberth was something different from how she has been portrayed. We can make her work and be more logical in function, whilst retaining the silhouette of the design. I will be doing some renders of her next to other Starfleet ships I have built. She will always be a weird duck ship, but now she can be a functional weird duck ship :-)

There have been so many fan iterations--I'd love to see a chart of them--maybe this version existed due to the Grissom tragedy and Vico was one of these.

BoPs should not be the only variable size ship

Why not? It's an idea.

The scaling on the BoP was confusing from the beginning. The detailing on the Merchantman made it look (to me at least) to be a moderately sized ship, mostly due to the bridge-like dome. And then the BoP decloaks on top of it and looks HUGE in comparison! Actually, that may work in your favor @JSnaith with your upscaled Oberth.

As I keep saying, TSFS doesn't really tell us what the scale is of these ships. We need to take a leap of logic and say, "ok, they picked it based on its look, but how does it work?" Reverse engineering, but it's been fun doing it.

 

[knightgrace]

Hmmm.
The moment that the Klingons Bird-of-Prey started jamming (raspberry), computer speed, would have commanded, everything correctly. Reason? To give the crew a chance.

Remember that in the Falkland Islands war of 1982 that the anti aircraft missile system, launched and fired multiple surface to air missiles. Without warning. The system was active, not passive.

You can't have passive systems that react slowly.

In the real world, this is known as 'murder'.

Then there is another problem. Off the East Coast of Africa there are Pirates! The systems employed are effective at comparatively short range. Meaning little to no time to react correctly. Which means that you are toast.

 

[JSnaith]

Hmmm.
The moment that the Klingons Bird-of-Prey started jamming (raspberry), computer speed, would have commanded, everything correctly. Reason? To give the crew a chance.

Remember that in the Falkland Islands war of 1982 that the anti aircraft missile system, launched and fired multiple surface to air missiles. Without warning. The system was active, not passive.

You can't have passive systems that react slowly.

In the real world, this is known as 'murder'.

Then there is another problem. Off the East Coast of Africa there are Pirates! The systems employed are effective at comparatively short range. Meaning little to no time to react correctly. Which means that you are toast.

I get what you're saying.

I think we have to remember that TSFS was a story, and the Grissom - no matter what class of ship she had been, was slated to die to further that story.

If we look at things from a real-world perspective, then yes, the Grissom should/would have been able to defend itself. It would have had shields, some sort of defensive weapons ability. As you point out, some systems are active not passive, TOS showed us that shields can activate automatically in certain circumstances - why did Starfleet drop this ability?

Lots to think on. But either way, the Apollo is coming along nicely, and as a ship works.

More later.