Janeway and Chakotay -- was this the end of the romance?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by KelisThePoet, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Tyler Snipps

    Tyler Snipps Cadet Newbie

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    No, I think Scorpion events attracted themselves to each other even more. Equinox was the mortal blow for Chats view and he no longer got Chubbs for Janeway.
     
  2. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh really? Then why wasn't there the quiet confession while she was in a coma in Scorpion?
    He called her his friend. I think it was over in the 3rd season because the scripts changed to suit Kate's narrow fears of being taken seriously. I am not disagreeing with her entirely, but any struggles they had with feelings that were interesting to explore were washed away to go into Seven this and Seven that.
     
  3. Mareika

    Mareika Captain Captain

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    That`s interesting. I`ve never seen them as in the age of my parents, although they propably were. They seamed to me like a beautiful, nice couple.
     
  4. Tyler Snipps

    Tyler Snipps Cadet Newbie

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    Your also forgetting the cut scene from season 4 where Janeway is talking about their "relationship". Chat was just going to wait her out until she gave up the easy ride home hopes.......then equinox happened and his view of her was damaged permanently.
     
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  5. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't forget. I figured it was reshot; didn't count.
    And btw, I am still unnaturally pissed when I think about UPNs bait and switch. Don't advertise an unfinished product.
     
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  6. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Generally, I'm with Ghislaine on this. However I don't think the feelings themselves went fully away until Workforce.
    In Shattered, Present-Chakotay is very much flirty with Past-Kathryn who is taken aback to find her future self shared a personal gift from her fiance with him and, to me, they seem very much borderline friends-to-more at the present while they share their dinner in the end of the episode.
    In Workforce, Janeway is very happy with Jaffen and Chakotay looks like he's been gut punched throughout the episode. At the end, when Chakotay asks if she regrets having to go she says no but she looks ready to burst to tears. Considering Chakotay's relationship with Seven started soon after, I'd say that's the end of any romantic notion the two carried.

    Also, at the end of Equinox Janeway and Chakotay can barely look at each other yet in the next episode they laugh like best friends at the beginning while they "battle" with the gifts of some planet they're communicating with. This however can be blamed on the writers not wanting to keep up with a serious rift between the ships two highest ranking officers.
     
  7. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, I know that all J/C fans won't like what I prepare to write but for me, in terms of protocol/convenience, this non-romance between Janeway & Chakotay can only be "saving" for her as Captain of USS Voyager.

    1. Because of the non-fraternization policy (rule which existed in Starfleet protocol according to Picard - cf to ST: TNG ...even if himself never praticed it but in the same time, his fiancée; Beverly Crusher although Chief Medical Officer on USS Entreprise-E while Picard led the vessel, didn't serve under his direct command but under Commander Riker's, who was Picard's First Officer).
    -> I remind that the non-fraternization rule was not written to annoy people but only avoid that any conflict between potential lovers, no matter the rank, come and disrupt the running of the mission. That being said, some of you are going to say that the situation of Voyager was expectionnal - what was right -, and that "extraordinary situation which required extraordinary measures" but even if a romance between both commanding officers lost in DQ could have been acceptable according the said situation, it would have been necessary that not only both individuals shared a deeply interest but decided to take action on it. And this was exactly where the problem lied as seeing as even if Janeway showed how she wasn't totally insensitive to Chakotay's charm, she early made clear too that as a Captain, she would NEVER date any of her subordinates, what included her First Officer.Rrule she imposed on herself and has faithfully followed to Chakotay's dismay!

    2. Because even if Janeway returned on Earth covered in glory after 7 years in DQ, some people, regardless where they came from (Starfleet, the Federation, medias and/or civilians), led by jealousy (and/or pain, especially if a beloved one died in DQ under her command) towards what she managed to accomplish and/or frustrated not to see her facing a court martial for all her faults and violations of the Prime Directive, etc... could be tempted to request clarifications about the nature of her relationship with Chakotay, which - I would remind you - , was still wanted by the Federation (and Starfleet keeping considering Chakotay and his friends as Maquis and so wanted individuals) for felony and act of treason towards the organization in acting against its decision/policy.
    So, if these people were able to find all means to "shoot" her, in particular in proving that instead of hunting and arresting Chakotay and his crew, she had not only offered them asylum and protection, thus endangering the crew and the ship but, slept with the leader, a criminal doubled a traitor to the Federation, I can assure you they wouldn't deprive.
    -> Here, Janeway was only guilty to have offered asylum and protection to the Maquis against Starfleet and surely the Federation's will. Anyone could ever accuse her to have slept with the ennemy and it was important and good because in another time and another place, sleeping with a man or a woman accused of treason, led you at worst, before a firing squad (cf Mata Hari) and at best, in high security prison or be fired, ... what in Janeway's case would have been a serious infamy/shame deeply felt.
     
  8. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    You're completely right but Voyager wasn't due to return in seven years (remaining faithful to her fiance for those seven years works perfectly for me). Frankly it's a fluke that it did. They had calculated it would take at least 70 years at maximum speed with no stops along the way. Chakotay with Janeway even discussed in a season 1 episode that they'd have to revisit (if not blatantly ignore) the non-fraternization policy at some point. Considering Janeway is the highest ranking officer on board, she'd either have to remain abstinent, ignore the policy and form a relationship with someone on board or conveniently meet an alien who agrees to work on the ship independently and aim for the grey area in the policy. When and if they returned, she'd have to explain her actions and, as long as her command actions towards her lover/possible husband were sound, I doubt anyone would give her a carpeting her for bending the rules.

    I only wish that if the Janeway/Chakotay romance was firmly destined to not be explored, they would direct the actors to play it strictly friendly and stop baiting fans. I can't say I shipped them, but the friendly-to-romantic actions were there from the first few episodes to the last few.
     
  9. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oops. Please, read NO ONE could ever accuse her to have slept with the ennemy...
     
  10. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    This is now my headcanon.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So she brought on the Talaxian as boyfriend down the road?

    Poor Kes walks out an air lock after a Universal translator malfunction.

    :(
     
  12. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What nonfraternisation rule? I doubt Starfleet expected officers including captains to be celibate for 5 year missions.
     
  13. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    eeyew.

    Just imagine what Neelix must smell like. He handles and eats every kind of weird foodstuff.......Kes must be able to turn off the olfactory senses, or Neelix takes a sonic shower every hour. Or every five minutes.
     
  14. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The nonfraternisation rule is not about preventing individuals to meet and fall in love on a workplace BUT to prevent people sharing a direct reporting relationship to fall f any kind interest conflicts on both professional and personal levels, which would bring some serious consequences in term of crisis management on work and people surrounded them. Here, Janeway, as Captain, had a straight-line connection between Chakotay and all members of her Senior crew who used to directly report - but complain and give their views to - her ... instead of using the First Officer as an intermediate AND vice versa, no matter the reason.

    As for Janeway/Chakotay, it would have never have worked out between them and they would only have ended up hurting each other because well, they didn't share the same conception of their roles on a personal and professional levels:
    - where Janeway was able to be merciless to some enemies encountered while more "understanding" to some others for the smooth running of her mission and the welfare of her crew, Chakotay was unable to seperate the personal from the political*. In fact, I think that was one thing all Maquis had in common!
    - where Janeway needed her ship, needed to be out here doing her job, Chakotay would have been happy settling on some quiet little planet, raising a family, living off the land, thinking that it was something Janeway would get over as soon as he would have shown her the error of her ways. (cf Resolutions).
    I tell you, they never could end together because for someone like Janeway, there would always be something (Starfleet/the Federation)/someone (Seven and/or someone else related to her new job) important to her wellbeing and her need to feel useful. Chakotay could never compete with that.

    - Scorpion and Equinox sent a message clear: his refusal to support her personally despite their professional disagreement had been like a slap in the face. Even if the anger she felt gradually faded, the hollowness inside never went away and she never felt so completly alone during these 2 incidents
    (I bet that he has been able to do it, he would have asked to Tuvok and the Doctor to declare her no longer capable of commanding because of her too emotionally vulnerable state and take her seat!).
    - As XO, his job was supposed to be playing devil's advocate, to argue with Janeway when he thought she was making a bad decision what he did ....or tried to do but witout real conviction and let's be honest, a new relationship couldn't stand that kind of pressure. Of course, some of you are going to say that if people involved really loved each other enough, it might worked BUT let's face it, if she really wanted Chakotay, she would have had him by now after 7 years.
     
  15. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But in fact, before talking about the end of the romance, we should wondering if there was a romance to start, shouldn't we?!
    -> for me, some glances exchanged, some touching and candlelight meetings from time to time (often for private briefings) in Captain's quarters are more conducive to a flirting attitude than entering in a romantic relationship. And last I noticed, 1) the flirt is the very first step before a possible romance! 2) Janeway and Chaktay have never kissed and never exchanged words of love :p, contrary to Chakotay and Seven, with the so little excitement we know/saw! :rolleyes:
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Janeway and Chuckles wanted to be together, she has to step down, and give command to Tuvok.

    Of course then they would both be lieutenant Commanders, and to stay on the same level as (also) the executive officer, they would have to be in opposing swing swifts, and never see each other like Rutger Hauer and Michelle Pfieffer in Ladyhawk.

    So to really be together she has to be demoted twice.
     
  17. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I can’t remember a J/C meal scene that didn’t get interrupted by a ship emergency.

    Like the writers wanted to just tease this for seven seasons.
     
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  18. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In this case, I'd say that even the gods were against them as items! :whistle::D:lol:
     
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  19. KimMH

    KimMH Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I honestly didn’t initally ship them because I wanted a show that didn’t have an obligatory romance arc and could portray women and men as friends and colleagues and soldiers-in-arms. The books of course put them together eventually and I’m fine with that - time helped me get over that. If minds like those are gonna ship them who am I to demure?
     
  20. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I never felt a sexual side was part of Janeway. She’s Mom.

    The Jeffen thing withstanding, since that’s not the real Janeway.