Janeway and Chakotay -- was this the end of the romance?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by KelisThePoet, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If Voyager had been written today it would have been extremely political correct and full with doom and gloom.

    In that case, Janeway would have killed Kes and Chakotay to have Seven on board on the ship as her "favorite" and also as First Officer.

    Then B'Elanna would have killed Janeway for killing Chakotay who she was betraying Tom with.

    Then Neelix would have killed B'Elanna because B'Elanna killed the Captain, thus perventing Neelix from killing the Captain to avenge Kes.

    Then Tom would have killed Neelix to avenge B'Elanna.

    Then Tuvok would have killed Tom for being a threat to the ship by Killing Neeilx, thus obstucting the cooking for the crew.

    Then Harry would have killed Tuvok for killing his best friend Tom.

    Then Seven would have killed Harry to take over the ship.

    Then The Doctor would have killed Seven to prevent a Borg from taking over the ship and as an extra security measure, he would have set the ship on self-destruct to prevent it from falling in the tentacles of The Borg.

    And everything would have been Donald Trump's fault! Or Putin's! :lol:

    Now that's what I call 2010 decade style of writing! Maybe I shoult try to create a script for the next series after all?

    Anyway, **** the 2010's, the most boring decade ever when it comes to TV-series, movies, books, music and entertainment! :mad:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  2. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As you said so well, Jeri Ryan being an (unexpected) good actress, she could always faint a Stockholm Syndrome towards Kate Mulgrew/SJaneway, right?! :whistle:
    Let's be serious now, although Mulgrew and Ryan didn't did not get along, they managed to keep being professional in their scenes (and God knows how much their scenes were numerous, especially in S4 -> even if I guess that the conflicted relationships between Janeway and Seven in half of the season, were surely easier to play for them! ;)) and their dissensions never showed up on screen. Still more surprising, sometimes their acting gave even the impression that their characters flirted... Perhaps it was what we call here "de l'amour vache" (= though love)?! :lol:

    I think that writers failed a lot to write human feelings regardless how they were supposed to be or were perceived, especially love :crazy:... contrarely to those felt by the aliens. Fortunately, sometimes some actors knew to correct the situation but often, they didn't or didn't care enough to do it. :shrug:
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Killing Game.

    Mid 20th century fictional woman in a tuxedo = Lesbian = Trope.

    I think that the Doctor was in charge of character design in the Hirogen simulations.

    The Doctor decided who was going to be in love and who was just along for the ride, because he was trying to make the experience bearable, and maybe help end this.

    It's weird that the Doctor wrote that Neelix got to have sex with everyone in the Klingon simulation. Maybe it's some bizarre revenge because (way back) the Doctor wanted Kes, and Neelix got in his way?

    No woman on Voyager is going to want to give Neelix a chance romantically if they are presented with evidence that he has already been "there" without permission.
     
  4. cosmic mouse

    cosmic mouse Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :lol: you're probably right!
     
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That wasn't Robert Beltran's fault. It was the fault of the writers who essentially turned him into a cardboard character with no real personality to speak of. Seasons 1 & 2 Chakotay was probably the best in terms of his character development, but then the writers proceeded to focus their energy on 7of9 and the Doctor, and Chakotay suffered massively.
     
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  6. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    True but I think the loss of Seska also took a lot away from Chakotay.
     
  7. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it took a lot away from Chakotay for exactly one episode. He then became dull and lifeless for the rest of the show.
     
  8. Sareesataka

    Sareesataka Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Was there an episode when Chakotay said, "I like Seven more"? If there were, I vote that was the moment the romance died between Chakotay and Janeway.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In Shattered, Young Janeway was told that she NEVER hooks up with Chakotay.

    This is the head ache that kept Kathryn abstinent for seven years.
     
  10. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :lol:
    Abstinent for 7 years?! What about Michael Sullivan and Jaffen, if if with this one, she has temporary lost the memory of who she really was, that didn't avoid the "other" Janeway to sleep with him several times. :whistle:
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Holograms are masturbation aides, and Janeway had her personality written over when she took Jaffen as a lover.

    Nothing to worry about though, Janeway didn't need sexual release, to stay sane, she relieved tension by murdering people, like Tuvix.
     
  12. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I remember to have once time, expressed the idea that holograms used as sexual partner (Janeway, Tom, etc... and even the Doctor who was himself a hologram...) were the sex toys of the future, so,... :p
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Quark ran a brothel.
     
  14. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Tasha Yar used a sex doll.
     
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  15. Mareika

    Mareika Captain Captain

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  16. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    Why do many fans speculate more of a possible romance between Janeway and Chakotay than they do between Picard and Crusher?
     
  17. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I guess that hope is what makes J/C's fandom live...:whistle:

    As well in Voyager, neither Mulgrew aka Janeway and Beltran aka Chakotay have supported, Mulgrew more than Beltran (even if at the end, he had to concede), the idea to see the flirtation from the beginning becoming something more serious between the Captain and her First Officer, as well in TNG, Stewart aka Picard and McFadden aka Crusher have welcome - and even enjoyed playing - the romance/love story between the Captain and his Chief Medical Officer.
    Maybe I'm wrong but I think that the deterioration of the working relationship between Mulgrew and Beltran between the 3rd and 7th season has not improved things, while between Stewart and McFadden, it seems that there has been no cloud on the horizon ...but they must have been frustrated by the way Picard/Crusher was treated (and even more upset at the end, while we don't really know if they shall flow together happy days until death separates them.
    For Janeway/Chakotay, I just see them lving life separately (Janeway pursuing her carreer in Starfleet until retirement and Chakotay, helping to rebuilt his planet colonny).
     
  18. Sareesataka

    Sareesataka Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's because Crusher would not kill after she mates. Janeway would.
     
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  19. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sorry but I don't see the link. :shrug:

    All I see is that Chakotay was far to be the good guy respectable to date when he boarded Voyager (himself confessed that he gave life to the rage he felt through violence, regardless he used it himself or by supporting others = from those who were under his command, I mean!) and even if he tried to redeem himself during the 7 years Voyager was in DQ, his behaviour left something to be desired from time to time, not only on a personal side, in playing it sometimes a bit too personal but, as First Officer too, in betraying shameless Janeway's confidence/leadership when she didn't share his opinion/his way of doing things (I remind that the practice of psychologic torture isn't forbidden and in any case, the using of physical violence is prohibited...although sometimes necessary when time is too short!) -> hey, he even thought to mutiny... even if his project came out of his head quickly; maybe because he perfectly knew that any attempt would be doomed to failure and not without risk/consequences for him, no matter all excuses he found to justify his decisions. Some were understandable while some others weren't).
    BTW, I have a question, do you really think that when he led The Val Jean, his general behaviour and decisions taken were always morally acceptable?! I doubt it very much and nobody would have dared to tell him to stop before it was too late... if he even listened to them! In fact, he was too emotional to act logically and/or in following the book!
    (-> I remind too that Voyager and her crew were lost in middle of nowhere in DQ, to face numerous ennemies and other danger, whatever on duty or on their free time. There was no room for doubt, for question and I would even say, for matter of conscience in this situation ... although producers/writers tried to infuse the idea that Janeway and Chakotay acted, at different personal levels, on their principles.

    And to return to J/C, it was clear to me that after Scopion and still more after Equinox and Endgame, that Janeway couldn't rely on Chakotay's loyalty/respect and confidence. As for an eventual love interest for Chakotay, even if Janeway had shown herself sensitive to his flirtation in first 3 seasons (what was a mistake, if you want my opinion because it sent a wrong message), she told him "no" a first time at the end of "Resolutions" by distancing him physically after to have spent a month alone with him on an unknown planet and then, later in "Hunters", after to have spoken of her "Dear Jane" letter, she could not be clearer about her disinterest. Yes, she liked him but as a dear friend, nothing more. And she acted afterwards in this regard, in flirting with an alien named Krashykk then, in dating Michael Sullivan, a hologram and finally,after to have been released of her identity after to have lost her memory, she lived an intense relationship with Jaffen, an other alien.
    -> If Chakotay continued to be hopeful after her polite rejections and love affairs,
    it was he who was stupid! :whistle:

    On the other hand, we had Picard/Crusher's romance, which was almost natural and lovely to see/follow through years. Both were Starfleet in heart, they knew each other for awhilethis was why there was a certain familiarity in their behavior toward each other. They were always trustful and respectul on the Bridge as outside, always taking care not to mix the reality of their positions on board, with their consequences (actions and decisions) and their feelings for each other (what neither Janeway or Chakotay kenw how to do!).

    (I always heard that a deep confidence, respect and loyalty were essential for a love story becomes serious and works (same for friendship) and when one of the two parties tends to show some weaknesses in these areas, perhaps it is wiser to consider a non-relationship and they stick to remain cordial towards each other and that's ok. Some people are made to be together for better and for worse, while some others should keep distance if they want to stay emotionally healthy/well-adjusted! :))
     
  20. woodstock

    woodstock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Personally, I'm glad it never amounted to anything, it seemed kind of icky to me, especially the episode Resolutions. It's like seeing your parents get all smoochy.