Jake's Babylon 5 Watch

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JRoss, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    ...is insane. --JMS
    That was the problem. Yes, the character was forced on JMS (he had a different idea of what he wanted as a squadron leader) but one reason that he went away is that he just couldn't act very well (per Larry DiTillios introduction to GROPOS in the B5 script books).

    Re: Na'Toth...well, you'll see Julie Caitlyn Brown in a very different look before season 5... ;)
     
  2. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He doesn't strike me as the best actor. I don't think that the show would have suffered without him. We're just getting into ambassador Kosh right now. President Clark's personal physician, who was a friend of Dr. Franklin, just escaped from the spooks to get proof of Clark's complicity in Santiago's assassination to Hague's resistance movement.

    I know that the Vorlons are enemies of the Shadows. That much was easy to glean from the commercials. I love how Kosh reacts violently to Sheridan asking "What do you want?" I've read that the Vorlons have their own question they ask people. This is getting good. I keep expecting Hague to become evil just because he was also Admiral Leyton. I had to look it up to realize who he was.

    As a sidenote, because of his appearance in DS9, I've always pictured Foxworth as Admiral Sandecker whenever I've read Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt series. If you're not familiar, it's the same character that William H Macy played in 2005's Sahara.
     
  3. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    A recent DVD from the B5 folks featured Claudia and Jerry watching some episodes and doing running commentary. Apparently they absolutely hated that actor. The guy came unprepared, kept blowing his lines, and acted like a prima donna. Jerry said he actually chased the guy down at the end of one work day and screamed at him for being unprofessional and making everyone else's job harder. They were not displeased when he... left.
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kind of makes you wonder whether things might have turned out any better if the actor had been more professional. I could have seen a bit of a merger between the Keffer and Marcus roles.
     
  5. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wow. Even though I didn't get to watch this much as a kid I always liked Jerry. He was Captain Simian, after all! It's a shame that he and Rick and Andreas and Michael have all passed away.
     
  6. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Okay, just finished up the episode where they are dealing with the B5 gift shop and Sheridan shooting a Minbari civilian. So, yeah, original Na'Toth was the lawyer? Funny. And she comes just after the last time we see Na'toth until season 5? I've been reading the Lurker's Guide to B5, but only to catch up on episodes I've already seen. Very interesting.

    Don't tell me if I'm right or wrong, but I'm suspecting that the Vorlons look like angels, or maybe butterflies. I know from commercials that I saw as a kid that the Vorlons and Shadows are ancient enemies.

    The other day I kept texting my friend who told me that he loves B5 "What do you want?" He liked it when I eventually sent a pic of Morden.

    I'm trying to get a grip on the power structure of the stellar polities. From the top down I'm thinking:

    1. Shadow (or else the Vorlon would just outright kill them, unless they're weaker than the Vorlons and that's why they have proxies like Morden and Londo doing their dirty work).

    2. Vorlon (or maybe they're number 1. See above.)

    3. Minbari, superior tech to humans. Only surrendered because of religious reasons.

    4. Earth, otherwise the Narns and Centauri wouldn't be so supplicating to them.

    5. Narns, close to Earth, until The Coming of Shadow, anyway.

    6. Centauri, until they switch places with the Narn.

    I want to see what made the Centauri enter a period of decline. I'm assuming it was scenario like how Britain lost her territories even though technologically superior to them. Guerilla wars and such. The other thing is how did the Narns survive their initial contact with the Shadows 1,000 years ago if they weren't even in space on their own a century ago? Don't tell me the answers, I just hope the show explains things.
     
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting. Very interesting. :p

    I'm showing the series to a friend for her first time (we're near the end of S5 now), and I have to admit that I find it frustrating that, while she's obviously enjoying it, she isn't really the overtly intellectually curious sort...we're not really having conversations about what's going on, and she's not typically asking questions (though I imagine part of that is wanting to avoid spoilers). Put another way, I'm enjoying showing her the series, but I'd enjoy it more if we were talking about it more along the way.
     
  8. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, talk to me, brother! I'll try and update this thread at least once per episode, but every once in a while I get to binge.

    Just finished the "News Documentary" episode. I liked it a lot. Lots of drama, unusual perspective, fun ad for the Psi Corp.

    It's odd, but after that commercial I got this strange feeling that I was somehow "wrong" about Psi Corp before. Maybe they are trustworthy and friendly. Also, yeah, ha ha, the very next episode confirmed my hypothesis that it was a war of attrition (which is how the US and subsequent breakaways from various powers seem to be able to manage).
     
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  9. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Starting "In the Shadow of Zha'dum". OH, SNAP, VIR! He told off Morden and I don't think that will go well for him. Following his development beginning in "The Coming of Shadow" and B story in "There All Honor Lies" my list of favorite "seconds" is now as follows:

    1) Lennier
    2) Vir
    3) Ivanova
    4) Na'toth

    Not counting Franklin and Garibaldi as "seconds".
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think in a lot of ways Vir is one of my faves, and if it's painful seeing him as he is early in the series, it's wonderful to see how he develops over time. And his conversation with Morden is among my favorite moments of the series...probably among many fans' favorite moments, actually.
     
  11. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was a bit confused by some of Delenn's dialog. I took it to mean that Kosh was not a Vorlon, but that he was one of the "Ancient Ones" posing as a Vorlon, with their support. I looked it up and saw clarification that they meant "all but one species" of Ancient Ones. And so Kosh either looks like an angle or maybe his form is dependent upon your own perception? I had seen what a shadow looked like before, commercials in the 90s. Those guys are cool.

    Why didn't the Vorlons and Minbari vaporise Z'Ha'Dum back at the end of the war 10,000 years ago? Or whatever it was that happened 1,000 years ago? That actually made it seem like the Shadows aren't much of a threat. Maybe because the Shadows are predictable and always gather in the same place? Like it's easier to keep tabs on them?

    If the Shadows have to manipulate from, well, shadows, like using Morden and setting the other powers at one another's throats to distract from them, why are we scared of them? They've been beaten so many times before. Are the Vorlons now weak enough to be conquered? The Minbari are losing their souls, are they actually becoming weaker? Don't answer.
     
  12. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song.
     
  13. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    ...is insane. --JMS
    Yes...it *is* odd how the Vorlons and Shadows never actually confront each other...isn't it? :D
     
  14. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just watched the episode with the Drafa Plague and then Divided Loyalties.

    WHAT?!

    WHAT?!?!

    So the Markab are just GONE? That was a powerful episode. And now there's no more Talia? But what about what Ironheart did to her? All that potential is gone. Urgh.
     
  15. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re Talia, the actress wanted to leave IIRC.
     
  16. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Yes, Andrea bailed to pursue a career as a CNN anchor, which lasted about a month before she bailed on that. jms invoked one of his famous trap doors to get rid of Talia (in the most FU way possible) ("Never cheese off the writer" - jms), and bring Pat Tallman back in as Lyta. He had actually wanted Pat as the station teep all along. I can't recall why he couldn't get her for the series in the first place.
     
  17. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Pat didn't seem like she was doing a good job of acting in the earlier scenes of the episode, but then once they started sending the password into people I liked how she emoted. Really felt like she was doing "something". That and I liked her scene with Kosh. I'm now reading the Lurker's Guide page after each episode. It looks like the plan was to get rid of Talia for some time? I don't mind that they did that to Talia and I like JMS thing about not letting people think that characters are safe. And I was thinking that Talia'd eventually just save the day with Ironheart-like powers. What gets me is that I've heard she never comes back. She would have been an EXCELLENT villain. Oh well.
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Nope, she burned her bridges, and the writer burned her character. :lol:

    I think Pat was first and foremost a stuntwoman who wanted to act, and turned out to be a pretty good actress. I like her a lot (oh hell, I'm madly in love with her), and she can occasionally pull an emotion out of me with some skill, but I have no illusions that she'll ever win an Oscar. One thing I love about her is that she was sort of an ambassador between B5 and Star Trek. Even while she had a full time job at B5, she was still doing guest roles and being a stunt double on various Treks.
     
  19. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, and I am not yet convinced that there wasn't something to Garibaldi's fakeout when Lyta sent the password into his head.
     
  20. Snatcher42

    Snatcher42 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You're in the best part of the show now, JRoss. From here until the end of Season 4, it's full steam ahead.