Instead, he would have be responsible for the stealth takeover of both Federation and Klingon Empire by the Dominion.
Jake Sisko the worst
- Thread starter mattmatt
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To quote myself...
How do you know that there wasn't a Dominion War in that timeline? From memory, there is a gap of approximately fifteen years between "now" and the nearest future shown. If it was as short a war as the one we saw, that still leaves them over a decade for life to get back to normal.
Right, and one of the reasons why the Federation opposed the Klingon attempt to occupy Cardassia was because there was every indication that they wouldn't stop at Cardassia, and they would next attack Bajor to ensure direct control of the wormhole. So in that alternate timeline where the Klingons had control of the wormhole, Bajor & Cardassia probably suffered greatly (along with others possibly) from the impact of not 1 but 2 wars.
I wonder how the prophet/pah wraith timeline would have played out -- with no Emissary, no Reckoning (at least involving Jake), no Dukat going mad after losing Zayal
No doubt Paul Weaver suggests that there obviously wasn't any Dominion War in the alternate timeline of the Visitor" because the Dominion didn't seem to be ruling the former Federation in any of the scenes in the alternate universe of 'The Visitor".
The way the threat of the Dominion was established, a Dominion-Federation war would result in Dominion conquest of the Federation at least 999,999 times out of million, or maybe 999,999,999 times out of a billion. The writers of DS9 showed the audience one alternate universe out of a million or a billion, or something, where the Federation managed to survive a Dominion-Federation War, instead of showing any of the countless more probable alternate universes where the Dominion conquered the Federation in a Dominion-Federation War.
The Trek writers did the same thing with Borg episodes and movies, showing the one-in-a-gazillion alternate universes where the protagonists were not assimilated by the Borg instead of showing any of the countless more probable alternate universes where the protagonists were assimilated.
Trek writers shouldn't keep inventing unbeatable enemies.
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Given the DW was the costliest war for the Federation to that point in time, Jake simply not mentioning it would seem to be an odd omission, but it's been awhile since I've seen the episode, and I'll grant that the DW would be kind of secondary to the story Jake was telling, especially if it's one of those 'everybody knows this happened' situations, which I imagine it would be.
On the contray, we know from Parallels that a Borg-ruled universe actually seems to be in the minority. They are not quite as irresistible as they think they are.
Yeah, I'm gonna need to see some facts to back up those numbers.
No evidence DW happened
- Klingons took over DS9
- Bajor/Cardassia defence pact, Dukat never entered into alliance with dominion
- Klingons took over DS9 in about s6. Martok wasn’t discovered, likely changling infiltration was never stopped.
- Klingons were still in charge of DS9 later, and relations were strained for a decade or two - with no ships going through the wormhole, perhaps because Martok was in charge at this point and was a changeling.
We certainly see enough to know the war didn’t happen before the Klingons took over, and that the Klingons and Federation didn’t ally against the dominion for at least 20 years (until relations thawed). With the Klingons having closed the wormhole and Martok in a key position and no foothold in cardassia why would the dominion bother to go to war?
- Klingons took over DS9
- Bajor/Cardassia defence pact, Dukat never entered into alliance with dominion
- Klingons took over DS9 in about s6. Martok wasn’t discovered, likely changling infiltration was never stopped.
- Klingons were still in charge of DS9 later, and relations were strained for a decade or two - with no ships going through the wormhole, perhaps because Martok was in charge at this point and was a changeling.
We certainly see enough to know the war didn’t happen before the Klingons took over, and that the Klingons and Federation didn’t ally against the dominion for at least 20 years (until relations thawed). With the Klingons having closed the wormhole and Martok in a key position and no foothold in cardassia why would the dominion bother to go to war?
On the contray, we know from Parallels that a Borg-ruled universe actually seems to be in the minority. They are not quite as irresistible as they think they are.
How do we "know from Parallels that a Borg-ruled universe actually seems to be in the minority. They are not quite as irresistible as they think they are."?
Possibly "The Best of Both Worlds" ended with a million alternate universes where the Borg won for every one where they didn't, and then alternate universes continued to branch off in great numbers.
So if the original universe in "Parallels" was descended from a universe where the Borg were defeated in "The Best of Both Worlds", that could have split off into countless thousands or millions of alternate universes a few years later by the time of Parallels", and the Borg would have lost in all of those universes that split off from one where they lost in "The Best of Both Worlds".
So when alternate universes began connecting, it is perfectly possible that the first connections were to the universes closest to Worf's original one, and thus which branched off the most recently. Alternate universes where the Borg were defeated in "The Best of Both Worlds" could be a tiny minority, but the only type of alternate universe close enough to Worf's original one to cross over in Parallels".
But it looks like the dimensional rift was closed just in time, since one of the latest alternate Enterprises that popped up was one from a universe where the Bog won. In a few more minutes there would have been more fugitive Enterprises, and then some Enterprises already being assimilated by Borg, and then Borg cubes.
Yeah, I'm gonna need to see some facts to back up those numbers.
Of course I don't have a mathematical analysis for the numbers I quoted. The probability of Dominion victory could have been much lower or much higher than I guessed. But the Dominion certainly seemed to have a very high probability of victory.
However, ships from further back will also come into view from timelines where Q decided to introduce Picard to a different threat, timelines where Q doesn't hurl the Enterprise across the galaxy, timelines where Picard accepts Q as a crewmembet, timelines where Q never encounters the Enterprisr, etc., until those with Borg domination are back in the minority. From the mechanisms shown in Parallels, there is nothing essential about the BOBW invasion.
It does make some sense to me that the E-Ds that started populating the timeline shown were initially those from timelines closest to the one shown, and in time we would have seen E-Ds from increasingly more divergent timelines.
I kind of want to know what was stopping an E-D from appearing on top of one that had already appeared, but perhaps it's for the best that that didn't occur.
We, of course, don't see any E-Ds from timelines where the ship doesn't exist at that point in time, which could be the majority of the "Borg Win" timelines.
I kind of want to know what was stopping an E-D from appearing on top of one that had already appeared, but perhaps it's for the best that that didn't occur.
We, of course, don't see any E-Ds from timelines where the ship doesn't exist at that point in time, which could be the majority of the "Borg Win" timelines.
An excellent and intriguing point, and ties in extremely well with MAG's theory. Consider me convinced.
Agreed. He is DS9's Wesley Crusher. 
Excuse me? Jake was a great character.
