Jake Sisko the worst

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by mattmatt, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Most likely because this is a Jake thread.

    You are criticizing me for a single, extremely offhand post. Why?
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because it's a condescending viewpoint. Other characters are taking similar actions. Only Jake is doing so in a way that is typical of someone his age.
     
  3. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    When Kira was 18, she was attacking Cardassian garrisons with a hand phaser. Was she wrong to do that because it would probably get her killed?
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would argue that it's wrong that any child should feel they have to fight people off with a phaser, but that's on the Cardassians, not her.
     
  5. Kira OneThree

    Kira OneThree Cadidiot Premium Member

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    There's actually nothing wrong with crying, so I'm not sure I understand.

    Incorrect. Childhood trauma actually prevents people from growing up in the manner you've suggested and can result in chronic depression, post traumatic stress, or multiple personalities. This is just a terrible opinion, unsupported by any kind of scientific fact.

    Fuck this opinion.
     
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  6. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But Jake was "Right" when he stayed behind on DS9. He wanted the inside story, and wagered that he would be protected by the Dominion, and he was protected. He was allowed to roam freely, and write to his hearts content.
     
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  7. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You're reading too much into it. I'm not arguing that it's a character flaw, only that it seemed like he stayed based on too many assumptions — and when he invoked one of those assumptions it came across as amusingly naïve. You may call that condescending if you want, but egocentric idealism is often the butt of jokes ... it certainly didn't help Wesley's reputation. "I'm with Starfleet, and we don't lie."

    That said, however:
    This is probably a better way to look at it. Now I'll revoke my seemed phrase above. He didn't assume, he wagered. The "freedom of the press" wager didn't pay off, but the rest did.
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The question isn't whether he was "right" in the sense of "was his judgment ultimately borne out" but whether he was "right" in the sense of "should he have done so in the first place".

    You said it yourself; he wagered.

    The post that started this side-discussion argued that in any dispute Jake had with his father (over Nog, over Mardah, etc.), Jake was always portrayed as being "right", and I would argue that in this case the most Jake could say was that he "got lucky". And if Ben and Jake had had the opportunity to debate the situation prior to Starfleet retaking the station then Jake wouldn't have even had that to stand on.

    In fact, Jake was detained, and it may be that the only reason he wasn't executed was because The Dominion was trying to "make nice" with the occupation at that point. Do we think he would have fared as well if it was a purely Cardassian occupying force?
     
  9. mlbach

    mlbach Captain Captain

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    You know, the OP has only made one post. I think you all have scared him off...
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or he was trolling. (shrug)
     
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  11. mlbach

    mlbach Captain Captain

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    That was my other guess :beer:
     
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  12. trekshark

    trekshark Commander Red Shirt

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    Agreed. If he hadn't been the son of the local religious icon at best he would have been locked in quarters, at worst executed as a spy. But the dominion couldn't afford a Bajoran rebellion at that point so they let Jake have a decent amount of freedom on the station.
    I might be wrong but if memory serves Jake was submitting news articles to be transmitted to the federation and at one point weyoun told him none had actually been sent.
     
  13. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Two things:

    1. Jake is an adult by that time.

    2. I don't remember Jake being locked away at all. He was allowed to roam the station freely. And just because his news articles were not allowed to leave the station, he wasn't prevented from writing them. He was even encouraged to.

    Jake was pretty perfect, at least as much as Wesley Crusher.
     
  14. mlbach

    mlbach Captain Captain

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    Weyoun tried hard to get jake to write pro-occupation propaganda (But by calling it an occupation you’re implying it’s a negative thing...) Didn’t work.
    About Wesley, that character was (imho) Roddenberry’s alter ego. Wesley was R’s first name. The boy was brilliant, and after R died they had him quit the Academy and said that he would be playing on other planes of existence. Like Roddenberry.
     
  15. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Your memory is incorrect. After Rom's failed attempt to sabotage the minefield, Kira, Leeta and Jake are detained, and are later freed by Quark and Ziyal.

    Perhaps notably, the detention order is given by Dukat to Damar without Weyoun's apparent knowledge.

    Whether Jake is an adult by that time is irrelevant, because that's not the concern that was expressed by the poster who brought up the "Jake is always right in any dispute with Ben" hypothesis. His age appears to be out of scope.
     
  16. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    I like Jake. I think he was a really good honest attempt to imagine a young person growing up in the 24th century, pulled from a near-utopia into the kind of situation he and his dad had to live through. I liked how his friendship with Nog developed over the years. He wasn't super-kid, but he was talented. He didn't get everything right, but then who ever does?

    Also The Visitor is one of the best Star Trek episodes ever made, and its probably shortlisted on best tv episodes ever made. There's your Jake.
     
  17. Keith1701

    Keith1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  18. comics1996

    comics1996 Ensign Red Shirt

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    I agree jake is a fine example where he grows up and finds skills like becoming a media guy.
     
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  19. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    Jake Sisko is the best handled child in all of Trek. Substantially better written than Wesley.
    Even though Weyoun didn’t allow any of Jake’s stories to be transmitted, I’ll bet he got one hell of a book out of the experience later on.
     
  20. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Without Jake we wouldn't have had the wonderful comic relief moment in "The Jem'hadar" where Jake and Nog succeed in disabling the autopilot only to realize they can't just order the runabout to fly them home because they've disabled the autopilot.

    That in and of itself makes him worthwhile.

    I could have gone with "In the Cards" or "The Visitor", but why state the obvious?
     
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