Jake Sisko the worst

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by mattmatt, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Jake was a believable teen, unlike Wes Crusher: Sooooooooper Genius! I'll take a Jake-centric story over a Wesley-centric story any day of the week.
     
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  2. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He was okay. The acting wasn't always the greatest, and he's like the perfect son, always always. Jake and Ben often came off like buddies who never got mad at each other. Kids are rarely so open with their parents after like age 13 or 14.

    I think Crusher's interactions with his mom in "the First Duty" is one of the most realistic portrayals in Star Trek between a mother and son. I don't remember Jake ever really having a moment like that where he had gotten in trouble and had to make such a choice.
     
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  3. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The First Duty was Wesley's one pretty decent episode.
     
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  4. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Then even Wesley can one-up Jake occasionally.
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Are you saying Jake never had a "pretty decent" episode? 'Cause The Visitor would like to have a word with you. :)

    ("Hey, but Tony Todd does most of the Jake work in that ep!" - "Doesn't matter, the quote was about the episode being good, not specifically the actor playing them" ;) )
     
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  6. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, having a TNG character act like an actual fallible human being is always a good thing.
     
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  7. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not just Wesley, but Beverly, the relationship, etc. Beverly simply cannot conceive that Wesley could be guilty, like a real parent. Wesley does not want her help, because of course, he is guilty.
     
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  8. Roundabout

    Roundabout Commander Red Shirt

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    Jake had his independent, or rebellious, moments.

    Jake defied his father, as well as Starfleet's orders for Starfleet personnel and family to evacuate DS9 ahead of the Dominion occupation of the station. Jake stayed behind in order to report behind enemy lines. Sisko was pissed.

    There were a number of lesser instances where Jake and Ben didn't see eye to eye. Jake dated a Dabo girl against the wishes of Ben, (he was opposed, at least initially).

    During season 1, Ben forbid Jake from hanging out with Nog, because Ben thought Nog was a bad influence. Jake ignored his father, and Jake wound up teaching Nog how to read. And they became best buds. Ben realized that he was wrong about their friendship.

    Also, Jake decided that joining Starfleet was not for him. He risked disappointing his dad. Ben did accept Jake's decision rather quickly. But it was Jake who wasn't afraid to choose the path that he wanted.

    Wesley didn't take the road less traveled. He followed in the footsteps of his father, mother, and mentor Picard, going for a career with Starfleet. Granted, the boy wonder did change his mind later when he met the Traveler.

    Imo, Jake was a lot more believable and likable character than Wesley.
     
  9. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Jake was a great character. Besides everthing already said he offered insight other than being in Starfleet or station/ship crewman much like Quark. Only regret is they never let him find out what his dad did in, Pale Moonlight. Jason
     
  10. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    These are all examples of Jake "doing the right thing." Are there any instances of Jake screwing up and having to learn from his mistakes? In those examples, it's like Jake teaching his father a lesson. Opie Taylor and Beaver Cleaver got into more trouble than Jake Sisko.
     
  11. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In retrospect, Jake was definitely not ready for "Nor the Battle to the Strong" and should have accepted Bashir's initial decision to drop Jake off at a safe place before going to aid of Ajilon Prime. Not only because it was a good idea but because Bashir was in command of the runabout. But I suppose if he did, they wouldn't have much of a story.
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Was Jake "right" to stay on DS9 when The Dominion invaded? Doubtful. He got lucky, but he could have ended up imprisoned, dead, used as a hostage, etc.
     
  13. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He certainly could have. But as a journalist he felt it was worth taking a risk to get a story. As an 18 year old, isn't that his decision?
     
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  14. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It wasn't exactly an informed decision. He apparently thought "freedom of the press" applied while under the thumb of a totalitarian government.
     
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  15. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So when Weyoun claimed that Bajoran life was not being curtailed by the Dominion, everyone should have simply believed him? Why was Kira more informed by asking for the reinstatement of armed Bajoran security officers?
     
  16. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Perhaps "informed" was not the right word. He severely misunderstood what he was volunteering for.
     
  17. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So you are looking for a word to show that Jake was necessarily stupid and Kira intelligent?

    There are of course differences in the approaches of the two characters. Kira seems to show more experience and a sense of awareness when she asks for armed Bajoran security. Jake shows more egocentric idealism, but that is merely a quality of adolescence, not a flaw of the character. Both are right to push back against oppression, and to use the language of the oppressor to do so.
     
  18. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't say anything about Kira. Please do not twist my words for whatever point you're making.
     
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My point was that a poster argued that Jake was "always right" with whatever stances he adopted, and I think we can all agree that whatever his decision to stay on DS9 was, "right" may not be the most appropriate term for it.
     
  20. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I said Kira as a point of comparison. You are criticizing behavior for one character but not another. Why?