Jadzia Dax YES OR NO ?
- Thread starter Kathryn-janeway
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Despite only having one season, I enjoy Ezri more I think, but I do like Jadzia a fair bit. I started to much moreso in seasons 2/3 when she developed a personality. In S1 there were some interesting ideas, but she was very boring. She definitely improved more as time went on though.
I always enjoyed scenes that highlighted her friendship with Sisko, and she was a good foil for pretty much everyone. She gave us some scenes with Quark no one else could do, and I love her cheery, wisecracking disposition. She was a great character once the writers figured where they wanted to go with her.
I always enjoyed scenes that highlighted her friendship with Sisko, and she was a good foil for pretty much everyone. She gave us some scenes with Quark no one else could do, and I love her cheery, wisecracking disposition. She was a great character once the writers figured where they wanted to go with her.
I registered on this forum after googling the words, "I hate Jadzia Dax," so you can pretty much expect me to say negative things about her.
I always kind of knew I didn't like her, but after rewatching the episode Playing God, now there is no more doubt that I completely hate her.
A couple of things to start, and I know other people here have expressed similar sentiments:
1. Dax redefines pretentiousness to an astronomical level-We are supposed to understand that a large part of this attitude comes from having absorbed part of Curzon's personality. The show frequently references how cocky and overconfident Curzon was, so to an extent I tried forgiving Dax for this disenchanting quality. Remember the terraformer in the episode Second Sight? The one who admitted constantly to being a self-absorbed egomaniac? Well that was amusing for maybe half the scenes I watched him. However, with Dax, we're treated to similar levels of egotism, but she holds back just enough in most episodes that I just manage to avoid being nauseated by it. No, wait. I'm always nauseated by it. I just barely avoid throwing up over it. One of the most annoying scenes in the Playing God episode is when Dax and the Trill initiate are at that Klingon restaurant and the Klingon chef is singing Klingon opera. Nevermind, Dax, that your initiate is visibly uncomfortable or that he probably doesn't like Klingon food to begin with, but why don't you go ahead an be oblivious to the sensitivities to people around you and just stand up next to the Klingon chef and sing opera with him. Yeah, do that! It's like if you've ever dated a girl for the first time and she needed you to know that she played classical piano. So out of nowhere, while you are picking her up at her house and in her living room waiting for her to get ready, she comes in and just starts playing the goddamn piano for some reason. It's as transparent as this thing Dax does in this episode. But that's okay, Dax. One of your previous hosts liked Klingon opera, right? Well you're always insisting you're not like Curzon when it's convenient for you, but when you want to do something as pretentious as this, just say it's cause one of your previous hosts compelled you to.
And why the hell did they go to a Klingon restaurant anyway? It's like that one pretentious friend who invites you to sushi to display their level of (feigned) sophistication. I'm sure she told him about what's best on the menu and how to properly order it too. Something she had understood long before him.
2. We get it! You're Dax!-Being a Dax in the Star Trek universe seems the equivalent of either getting a cool tribal tattoo, having backpacked across the Andes, or doing charity work for most people. You know, it's just one of those things that you feel you must tell people about every chance you get in order to maximize your level of cool. Since Jadzia herself as a character really has no depth (shown both by Farrell's lack of acting range and the writer's refusal to develop her beyond the fact that there's a slug inside her), she just falls back on being a symbiont host as the main thing that's interesting about her. And you're not really showing different sides to your personality simply by playing Dabo with the Ferengei or organizing all your favorite alien classical composers to listen to on the runabout. But holy cow, if she ever does fail to be interesting (always), all someone needs to do is point out that she has several lifetime experiences. "But you're just a young woman! What can you know about this??" "Oh but I'm not just a young woman! Little do you know...." And so on....
I don't even mind so much that Sisko endearingly calls her "Old Man." If only this didn't go to her head so much. If I was an amalgamation of past people's lives and personalities, I think I'd be embarrassed by this fact and try to keep it low key that a good portion of my personality is really the sum of so many other's. But she flaunts this all the time like it's something really to be proud of. And don't just tell me that it's an honor for them to have this alien lifeform in their body. If it was such an honor then maybe she'd carry herself about it with a more quiet dignity. But as far as she's concerned, if someone's gonna put a damn squishy slug inside her, well then she better get exclusive bragging rights on it. But remember how she only brags when it's convenient for her. It's like, when people remind her, "But Curzon used to say..." She's always like, "Well I'm NOT Curzon!" But if people say, "Gosh, you're stupid aren't you?" Then she's like, "Um, hello!? I'm Dax?"
3. Stop cock teasing Quark and Dr. Bashir-To be fair, every time either of these two come on to Dax, they are pretty damn corny about it. But at least when Kira turns a man down she gets all butch and in guys' faces about it. Dax's style is more like, "Mm, yes we'll see. I may never let you poke me, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying." It's just that how many times can viewers tolerate watching these awkward scenes of these two men coming on to her? It was kind of pathetic, really boring to watch, and above all, utterly predictable. Early on, Deep Space Nine was gaining a reputation anyway as merely being the Loveboat in space. I don't know, maybe these awkward chemistry-lacking scenes is what pissed off the Jem'Hadar and forced the whole Alpha Quadrant into war with the Dominion. And we all know the show got better at that point.
I always kind of knew I didn't like her, but after rewatching the episode Playing God, now there is no more doubt that I completely hate her.
A couple of things to start, and I know other people here have expressed similar sentiments:
1. Dax redefines pretentiousness to an astronomical level-We are supposed to understand that a large part of this attitude comes from having absorbed part of Curzon's personality. The show frequently references how cocky and overconfident Curzon was, so to an extent I tried forgiving Dax for this disenchanting quality. Remember the terraformer in the episode Second Sight? The one who admitted constantly to being a self-absorbed egomaniac? Well that was amusing for maybe half the scenes I watched him. However, with Dax, we're treated to similar levels of egotism, but she holds back just enough in most episodes that I just manage to avoid being nauseated by it. No, wait. I'm always nauseated by it. I just barely avoid throwing up over it. One of the most annoying scenes in the Playing God episode is when Dax and the Trill initiate are at that Klingon restaurant and the Klingon chef is singing Klingon opera. Nevermind, Dax, that your initiate is visibly uncomfortable or that he probably doesn't like Klingon food to begin with, but why don't you go ahead an be oblivious to the sensitivities to people around you and just stand up next to the Klingon chef and sing opera with him. Yeah, do that! It's like if you've ever dated a girl for the first time and she needed you to know that she played classical piano. So out of nowhere, while you are picking her up at her house and in her living room waiting for her to get ready, she comes in and just starts playing the goddamn piano for some reason. It's as transparent as this thing Dax does in this episode. But that's okay, Dax. One of your previous hosts liked Klingon opera, right? Well you're always insisting you're not like Curzon when it's convenient for you, but when you want to do something as pretentious as this, just say it's cause one of your previous hosts compelled you to.
And why the hell did they go to a Klingon restaurant anyway? It's like that one pretentious friend who invites you to sushi to display their level of (feigned) sophistication. I'm sure she told him about what's best on the menu and how to properly order it too. Something she had understood long before him.
2. We get it! You're Dax!-Being a Dax in the Star Trek universe seems the equivalent of either getting a cool tribal tattoo, having backpacked across the Andes, or doing charity work for most people. You know, it's just one of those things that you feel you must tell people about every chance you get in order to maximize your level of cool. Since Jadzia herself as a character really has no depth (shown both by Farrell's lack of acting range and the writer's refusal to develop her beyond the fact that there's a slug inside her), she just falls back on being a symbiont host as the main thing that's interesting about her. And you're not really showing different sides to your personality simply by playing Dabo with the Ferengei or organizing all your favorite alien classical composers to listen to on the runabout. But holy cow, if she ever does fail to be interesting (always), all someone needs to do is point out that she has several lifetime experiences. "But you're just a young woman! What can you know about this??" "Oh but I'm not just a young woman! Little do you know...." And so on....
I don't even mind so much that Sisko endearingly calls her "Old Man." If only this didn't go to her head so much. If I was an amalgamation of past people's lives and personalities, I think I'd be embarrassed by this fact and try to keep it low key that a good portion of my personality is really the sum of so many other's. But she flaunts this all the time like it's something really to be proud of. And don't just tell me that it's an honor for them to have this alien lifeform in their body. If it was such an honor then maybe she'd carry herself about it with a more quiet dignity. But as far as she's concerned, if someone's gonna put a damn squishy slug inside her, well then she better get exclusive bragging rights on it. But remember how she only brags when it's convenient for her. It's like, when people remind her, "But Curzon used to say..." She's always like, "Well I'm NOT Curzon!" But if people say, "Gosh, you're stupid aren't you?" Then she's like, "Um, hello!? I'm Dax?"
3. Stop cock teasing Quark and Dr. Bashir-To be fair, every time either of these two come on to Dax, they are pretty damn corny about it. But at least when Kira turns a man down she gets all butch and in guys' faces about it. Dax's style is more like, "Mm, yes we'll see. I may never let you poke me, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying." It's just that how many times can viewers tolerate watching these awkward scenes of these two men coming on to her? It was kind of pathetic, really boring to watch, and above all, utterly predictable. Early on, Deep Space Nine was gaining a reputation anyway as merely being the Loveboat in space. I don't know, maybe these awkward chemistry-lacking scenes is what pissed off the Jem'Hadar and forced the whole Alpha Quadrant into war with the Dominion. And we all know the show got better at that point.
Jadzia was my favorite character on DS9. When she was killed, it took me twice to watch her death scene without crying (granted, I was like nine or ten at the time, but STILL).
That said, I think there were some very apparent missteps in the treatment of her character. So much time is devoted to devloping the prior Dax hosts that Jadzia herself is forgotten. Every episode that focuses on her focuses on some element of her previous lives - 'Dax' is about Curzon, 'Blood Oath' is about Curzon, 'Equilibrium' is about Joran, 'Facets' is about all of them, but mainly Curzon, 'Rejoined' is about Tobin... None of them really focus on JADZIA. The only time we really see something about Jadzia is in 'Invasive Procedures' when Dax is removed, and even then, she spends most of that on a bed in the Infirmary because she'll die without the symbiont. The most we learn about Jadzia's life is a throwaway line about her having a sister.
Jadzia as a character would have benefited greatly from an episode that cut her off from Dax's memories while not threatening her life (or at least not immediately) and we learn about the woman who became a Dax. Learn why she wanted to be joined, learn about the traits that are purely her, not a mix of the other hosts. Or go to Trill and meet her family, perhaps have a story about how she has a family member who resent the idea that she went out and was joined. They needed to do something with JADZIA, not Jadzia DAX, and that they didn't is one of my few complaints with DS9 as a whole.
And you know, I look at the whole 'she has many bed partners' thing as something almost as a Trill thing - one of the things harped on with Trill society is that those who are joined should be always searching for new experiences and find joy in new things. Well, having a host (pardon the pun) of sex partners is finding joy and finding new things. Also, this is the 24th century. This is difficult to find the words I want to use exactly, but the whole idea in this time period seems to be along the lines of how sex may be two people getting intimate but it's also about that above idea of finding joy and happiness in the act. Nerys Ghemor may not be letting Kirk off about the 'girl in every port' thing, but there are a significant number of people who do, and, if Jadzia had been male, they wouldn't bring that sort of thing up at all because of society's double standard. It's a lot like the kiss with Lenara was treated - in real life, it was a big event because it was the on-screen kiss of two women, but in the world these characters live in, the problem was the kiss was the old feelings being expressed and risking Reassociation, not because two women were kissing. Likewise, Jadzia's supposed promiscuity (I say supposed because she flirts a lot and had some prior boyfriends, but how often did she EXPLICTLY say that she'd done more than flirt/kiss?) is something that our modern culture frowns on but 24th century society doesn't comment on.
And her relationship with Worf? I loved it. Yeah, sure Jadzia had her problems with all the ritual and ceremony and all that, but that's a part of who Jadzia as a person is. Jadzia and Worf's relationship was a lot like his relationship with K'Ehleyr. Yes, Jadzia had respect for Klingons, but her respect was for Klingons as they are, while Worf is the Klingon-iest of the Klingons. Worf's ideas of being Klingon are very rigid, very proper - this is what being a Klingon is, if you are Klingon, you must be like this. Jadzia knows that these are what Klingons aspire to, but also knows that they don't always make it to that point, and likes the Klingons as they are.
That said, I think there were some very apparent missteps in the treatment of her character. So much time is devoted to devloping the prior Dax hosts that Jadzia herself is forgotten. Every episode that focuses on her focuses on some element of her previous lives - 'Dax' is about Curzon, 'Blood Oath' is about Curzon, 'Equilibrium' is about Joran, 'Facets' is about all of them, but mainly Curzon, 'Rejoined' is about Tobin... None of them really focus on JADZIA. The only time we really see something about Jadzia is in 'Invasive Procedures' when Dax is removed, and even then, she spends most of that on a bed in the Infirmary because she'll die without the symbiont. The most we learn about Jadzia's life is a throwaway line about her having a sister.
Jadzia as a character would have benefited greatly from an episode that cut her off from Dax's memories while not threatening her life (or at least not immediately) and we learn about the woman who became a Dax. Learn why she wanted to be joined, learn about the traits that are purely her, not a mix of the other hosts. Or go to Trill and meet her family, perhaps have a story about how she has a family member who resent the idea that she went out and was joined. They needed to do something with JADZIA, not Jadzia DAX, and that they didn't is one of my few complaints with DS9 as a whole.
And you know, I look at the whole 'she has many bed partners' thing as something almost as a Trill thing - one of the things harped on with Trill society is that those who are joined should be always searching for new experiences and find joy in new things. Well, having a host (pardon the pun) of sex partners is finding joy and finding new things. Also, this is the 24th century. This is difficult to find the words I want to use exactly, but the whole idea in this time period seems to be along the lines of how sex may be two people getting intimate but it's also about that above idea of finding joy and happiness in the act. Nerys Ghemor may not be letting Kirk off about the 'girl in every port' thing, but there are a significant number of people who do, and, if Jadzia had been male, they wouldn't bring that sort of thing up at all because of society's double standard. It's a lot like the kiss with Lenara was treated - in real life, it was a big event because it was the on-screen kiss of two women, but in the world these characters live in, the problem was the kiss was the old feelings being expressed and risking Reassociation, not because two women were kissing. Likewise, Jadzia's supposed promiscuity (I say supposed because she flirts a lot and had some prior boyfriends, but how often did she EXPLICTLY say that she'd done more than flirt/kiss?) is something that our modern culture frowns on but 24th century society doesn't comment on.
And her relationship with Worf? I loved it. Yeah, sure Jadzia had her problems with all the ritual and ceremony and all that, but that's a part of who Jadzia as a person is. Jadzia and Worf's relationship was a lot like his relationship with K'Ehleyr. Yes, Jadzia had respect for Klingons, but her respect was for Klingons as they are, while Worf is the Klingon-iest of the Klingons. Worf's ideas of being Klingon are very rigid, very proper - this is what being a Klingon is, if you are Klingon, you must be like this. Jadzia knows that these are what Klingons aspire to, but also knows that they don't always make it to that point, and likes the Klingons as they are.
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Like Jadzia? If she weren't a fictional character I would more than like her. I would be fuckin' in love with her.
I love her wit and her beauty and her self-confidence and physical prowess. I love her smarts and I love her spots and I love the Dax symbiont and I love her never say die attitude and that she feels as much as she reasons and how she can be one of the guys and still be a girl too. I love that she has a sense of humor and that she knows how to have fun. I love how much she appreciates the Ferengi and yet can love an ugly lug like Worf as well. I love everything about Jadzia Dax. Had I met her before Worf did she would have been mine. Fuck Julian. SHE. WOULD. HAVE. BEEN. MINE! 
All right, I have just one question: WHAT rampant promiscuity?
That's what I want to know.
The criticisms of Dax and her so called promiscuity reek of sexism. I've never for example heard similar criticisms made of the likes of Bashir or Quark (who by way of comparison essentially runs a holographic brothel and is routinely sexually harassing his employees).
I can only hope that by the 24th century we've moved beyond labelling and judging women based on how they command, explore and express their sexuality.
I never cared for Jadzia. Terry Farrell was part of the problem and the rest was the way the character was written. Jadzia was annoying and dull. Her personality was too juvenile for my tastes with all her gossiping and playing matchmaker and her relationship with Worf was one of the worst aspects of DS9.
I did, however, enjoy Ezri and Nicole deBoer.
I did, however, enjoy Ezri and Nicole deBoer.
I think she was a great character. I just don't like the way she was killed off due to nothing having to do with the character but actor bullshit. I have a serious issue with actors that shit on what made them great by not renewing contracts or demanding more money, etc. Plus she played such an annoying, shallow, idiot of a character on Becker it was sad. Good thing the producers had a canned laughter button they could mash whenever she had dialog. 
Because what I really did NOT like was all of that time in season 7 that was wasted introducing and giving backstory to Ezri when they should have been spending more time wrapping up storylines from the previous 6 years.
Because what I really did NOT like was all of that time in season 7 that was wasted introducing and giving backstory to Ezri when they should have been spending more time wrapping up storylines from the previous 6 years.
Are you kidding me?Jadzia Dax was not only my favorite character on DS9, but the only one that I didn't find boring.
I don't get most of you people at all. I mean, Kira was by far more interesting. O'Brien was easily more interesting. And he was the most even-steven character Star Trek ever conceived of.
Seriously Jadzia was so painfully boring and annoying. Every moment she spoke of Curzon was worse than all of Odo's "I'm watching you, Quark" speeches put together.
Well it looks like Jadzia is winning, i must have being wrong at the amount of negativity about her. its shown that some fans still don't like her character or dislike Terry farrell's acting. Overall I'm quite glad i started this thread now. Thanks alot guys for stating your opinions.
Jadzia rules... and so does terry Farrell well she does to me
Jadzia rules... and so does terry Farrell well she does to me
Good Lord--the sheer wrongness of what Quark is doing goes without saying! You bet he's an exploitative, patronizing little SOB when it comes to women. As to Bashir...none too impressed with his exploits, either. I would rather have seen him settle down early on with Garak and prove he could be part of a relationship than do what he did. (Or with a woman, if a relationship was untenable for reason of either party's orientation, though at least with Garak, that's in question.)
I'm glad you started it too. I usually find these threads hard to read because people with really harsh criticisms tend to go full throttle in them, but there's been a lot of positive talk in here that I find heartening and it got kitsune to post in here again, so yay!
I understand your bafflement, I can't understand how anyone could find the rest of the characters on DS9 boring. Jadzia is not my favorite character on DS9, but thought I find Kira, Odo, Quark, Garak, Dukat, Sisko, O'Brien, and maybe even Damar later on, more interesting, I also like Jadzia and didn't find her boring. Well, actually, I did at first, but then she grew on me. I don't really dislike any of DS9's major characters, though I could have done without Rom's idiot shtick and Zek's silly old man shtick.Are you kidding me?Jadzia Dax was not only my favorite character on DS9, but the only one that I didn't find boring.
I don't get most of you people at all. I mean, Kira was by far more interesting. O'Brien was easily more interesting. And he was the most even-steven character Star Trek ever conceived of.
Seriously Jadzia was so painfully boring and annoying. Every moment she spoke of Curzon was worse than all of Odo's "I'm watching you, Quark" speeches put together.
kitsune
Captain
Nope.Are you kidding me?Jadzia Dax was not only my favorite character on DS9, but the only one that I didn't find boring.
I kindof liked Captain Sisko and Dr. Bashir too.
I like Jadzia because she was ADVENTUROUS and QUIRKY and DIDN'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY. I could have done with fewer Curzon anecdotes, sure, but nobody's perfect.
Rom was comic relief, for sure. But he actually was more interesting to me than Dax. Especially when we found out he was something of a mechanical prodigy.
And as for the OP poster feeling vindicated on their thread, it took a lot of angry patience to write all the things I hate about Dax. So most people who do hate her probably just don't have the patience that I do. And it's much easier for most of these people to just drop a line akin to, "I love her!" Seriously....
Just writing my first post in this thread made my blood pressure go through the roof. The average Trek fan probably can't afford to abuse their body in such ways otherwise I'm sure they would've chimed in more to agree with me.
Her skirt in Trials and Tribble-ations was true to Gene's vision.
What an odd and trolling way to put a grinding halt on our conversation. Thanks for nothing.
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