Spoilers It’s Official... (probably TV spoilers here too)

[JD]

What?

There were a couple of problems I had with TNT. During the 3rd season there were strong indications they would get one final season, which is why they ended the way they did. The last episode aired 09/22/2014. Then TNT didn't actually announce the cancellation until 10/03, about 2 weeks later. I remember a lot of fans were not happy and swore off TNT.

And it didn't help that they split up the last season. The first half of season 3 ended in April and didn't pick up again until August. And they kept moving it around. If you were a casual fan you probably would have just given up on it. I almost forgot about it coming back on myself and I'm a pretty hard core Dallas fan (I have the entire series/movies on DVD).

I wonder if that gap was where I lost track of it. I never watched the original Dallas, but I watched the new for quite a while, but then ended up losing track of it and never got a chance to get caught up before it ended.

I don't see the issue either way. None of the books I've bought and enjoyed are going anywhere. Time to see what the Kurtzman chapter of Trek brings us.

Of course the books will still be, but the story lines from them will probably be ending and that's what I care about.

 

[BillJ]

Of course the books will still be, but the story lines from them will probably be ending and that's what I care about.

It was only a matter of time one way or the other.

 

[Damian]

I wonder if that gap was where I lost track of it. I never watched the original Dallas, but I watched the new for quite a while, but then ended up losing track of it and never got a chance to get caught up before it ended.

Could be. They split the last season in half. And I think they moved the day around too. I'm a big Dallas fan and I almost forgot about it so it's not surprising others may have lost track of it (esp. if you're someone that doesn't watch a lot of TNT shows so you wouldn't see the ads for it).

When they started it, they aired it in the summer and it did really well. But TNT kept tinkering with the time and day, then they moved it to the winter and the ratings dropped. Then they split up season 3 and they fell even more. Now some fall off was going to happen. It wasn't the kind of show that was going to gain a lot more viewers. And when Larry Hagman died it was always going to be hard to continue Dallas. I was frankly impressed they managed to continue as long as they did. I just wish they got even an abbreviated 4th season to tie up story threads. All the signs pointed to one more season and everyone seemed to be caught off guard, the show runners and the actors. I think TNT may have led them down the garden path a bit. Maybe not outright promises, but there was a feeling that they were going to get a 4th and final season. Then they cut the legs out from under them 2 weeks after it ended.

There was talk for a time of doing a season online to finish things up. But online shows back then weren't such a huge thing yet. And I think they had trouble finding funding and a network and all that. I'm not sure how seriously it was pursued though.

Now I think it's too late. Ken Kerchevel (Cliff Barnes) has since passed away and it'd be too hard probably to get everyone back together and the interest just isn't there anymore.

Maybe someone can start a Dallas relaunch novel series and carry the story forward

 

[DimesDan]

One tidbit of information that can be implied by the dialogue in the latest episode, The Borg are still out there.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Big surprise there.

 

[DimesDan]

Big surprise there.

Really*? I wasn't surprised by the implication of the conversation, but liked the clarity it gave.

*or is your response Sarcastic with none of the usual online markers.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Really*? I wasn't surprised by the implication of the conversation, but liked the clarity it gave.

*or is your response Sarcastic with none of the usual online markers.

Sorry, I was grunting that on the part of the showrunners it was no surprise they would keep the Borg Collective in play to the unfortunate but expectable contrast to us novel readers.

 

[BillJ]

Sorry, I was grunting that on the part of the showrunners it was no surprise they would keep the Borg Collective in play to the unfortunate but expectable contrast to us novel readers.

The novel continuity was broken when we found out that Picard left the Enterprise in 2381, that there seems to be no Renee now.

 

[JD]

I just remembered another potential Novelverse contradiction, the visit by Dr. Benayoun. I guess there is some wiggle room since they didn't say when he was on board the Stargazer or what he did there.

 

[Christopher]

I just remembered another potential Novelverse contradiction, the visit by Dr. Benayoun. I guess there is some wiggle room since they didn't say when he was on board the Stargazer or what he did there.

The novels have only covered the first 6 months and the last day of the Stargazer's 22-year tenure under Picard's command, and maybe a few isolated bits in between. Plenty of room.

 

[Leto_II]

And although I think the novels mentioned that Dr. Greyhorse was Picard's CMO from very shortly after he took command of the Stargazer (starting in 2233, all the way up through the Battle of Maxia Zeta in 2355), I noticed that the episode doesn't actually canonically establish that Dr. Benayoun was technically ever Picard's CMO, per se. Maybe he simply served a comparable length of time as part of Greyhorse's M.D. staff (similar to Dr. M'Benga during the 5YM, or Christine Chapel aboard the refit Enterprise, post-TMP).

And though it's strongly suggested in the episode that he and Benayoun were together for most of his command of that vessel, that could allow Friedman's books to coexist alongside the TV series -- maybe by 2399, Dr. Benayoun is simply the easiest-to-contact Medical-division former crewmember Picard could quickly get ahold of at that particular moment.

 

[Damian]

The novels have only covered the first 6 months and the last day of the Stargazer's 22-year tenure under Picard's command, and maybe a few isolated bits in between. Plenty of room.

I noticed that the episode doesn't actually canonically establish that Dr. Benayoun was technically ever Picard's CMO, per se.

I can see both possibilities. And future Stargazer books could maybe do a bit of retconning as well. If we later find out this 'new' doctor was indeed the CMO for Picard's entire time on the Stargazer then any future books could reflect the change by renaming Greyhorse Benayoun.

But that being said I doubt that would be necessary. I'm not sure how much backstory we'll get on a newly created character form that far back in Picard's history. Future novels cold probably show either Greyhorse leaving and coming back (which would be a lesser retcon) or that this new doctor was simply on Greyhorse's staff.

But I kind of have to ask, on such a never before seen character would it have really hurt them to name the doctor Dr Greyhorse in honor of the novels. Would it have really changed anything. Granted Dr Greyhorse had a breakdown but he seemed to have recovered when he helped Picard rescue Dr Crusher. According to Memory Beta that was in 2379, 20 years before Picard and plenty of time for him to fully recover. It would have been a nice nod to the novels.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

“Hurt”? No. But they’re under no obligation, either. And as pointed out above, nothing precluded him from having been among the medical staff of the Stargazer, still leaving room for Greyhorse as CMO.

And, considering Death in Winter was the “Picard-Crusher relationship upgrade” that doesn’t happen in the show’s continuity, it means that, even if Stargazer and associated stories were to be mined for material, Greyhorse’s redemption is not part of that, so not necessarily his eventual fate.

 

[Tim Thomason]

It probably would've been nicer to use Dr. Crusher instead of Dr. Benayoun. But the way I see it, there are four possible reasons why they didn't:
1. They're saving Crusher for a later reveal.

2. They didn't want to resort to canon cameos so soon.

3. McFadden said no, or the money was too high (not that she'd be expensive, but the show seems to be very budget-conscious).

4. They didn't want to delve into Picard's potential backstory and baggage with Crusher just yet. Also, didn't want her to overshadow the episode, or at least the trailers.

As for Greyhorse, Carter Greyhorse is Native American, and David Paymer is not. Given the name (Moritz Benayoun) and actor, I think they explicitly pushed for Jewish representation in Starfleet. We've had Native American officers before, but Jewish ones were lacking.

And Greyhorse isn't the only Stargazer CMO in fiction. The Autobiography-verse has Doctor Ailat (an Edoan). So who's right? Both? Do you use Friedman's character or Goodman's, or just invent your own?

 

[Damian]

“Hurt”? No. But they’re under no obligation, either. And as pointed out above, nothing precluded him from having been among the medical staff of the Stargazer, still leaving room for Greyhorse as CMO.

And, considering Death in Winter was the “Picard-Crusher relationship upgrade” that doesn’t happen in the show’s continuity, it means that, even if Stargazer and associated stories were to be mined for material, Greyhorse’s redemption is not part of that, so not necessarily his eventual fate.

Yeah, I know. It's just I was hoping for some nod to the novelverse. I expected them the novelverse to basically be imploded and thus far it doesn't sound like anything from the novelverse can be salvaged.

Of course it's early yet. It's still possible we see some litverse character or storyline make an appearance as an Easter egg or something.

The Stargazer book series might be one that can be salvaged and perhaps continued at some point, filling in more of Picard's back story. It'd be nice if that's one that could continue as it was left off. But as some pointed out so far there's nothing that says Greyhorse couldn't still be the CMO and this new doctor on his staff, or that Greyhorse left for a time and this doctor was there in the interim. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

 

[The Wormhole]

Eh, the Stargazer books were already in conflict with the screen material anyway, given they depict Vigo as an alien when he was clearly human in The Battle. Then again, TNG itself later retconned Vigo as a woman in spite of The Battle.

 

[Christopher]

It probably would've been nicer to use Dr. Crusher instead of Dr. Benayoun. But the way I see it, there are four possible reasons why they didn't:
1. They're saving Crusher for a later reveal.

2. They didn't want to resort to canon cameos so soon.

3. McFadden said no, or the money was too high (not that she'd be expensive, but the show seems to be very budget-conscious).

4. They didn't want to delve into Picard's potential backstory and baggage with Crusher just yet. Also, didn't want her to overshadow the episode, or at least the trailers.

According to Michael Chabon in a recent interview, they just didn't want to do continuity porn for the sake of continuity porn, but to approach it more realistically, to acknowledge that we keep meeting new people throughout our lives and it isn't just the same familiar bunch forever.

There’s a version of an ill-advised Jean-Luc Picard TV show where any time we meet a character along the way, it’s someone from TNG or DS9 or Voyager or some other iteration of the show. You could do it that way, but this show is meant to be naturalistic, to feel as real as we could possibly make it.

And Greyhorse isn't the only Stargazer CMO in fiction. The Autobiography-verse has Doctor Ailat (an Edoan). So who's right? Both? Do you use Friedman's character or Goodman's, or just invent your own?

Good point. Novel fans tend to overlook that the novelverse is just one of several separate tie-in continuities; why should it be favored exclusively over all the others?

Yeah, I know. It's just I was hoping for some nod to the novelverse. I expected them the novelverse to basically be imploded and thus far it doesn't sound like anything from the novelverse can be salvaged.

It's not a question of "salvage." A story isn't discarded or destroyed just because it's out of continuity with a different story. They're all totally imaginary anyway, canon included.

I mean, even if the occasional character or concept from the novels were included in the show, it would still be in a different continuity from the novels, in the same way that the comics' version of Harley Quinn was never in continuity with Batman: The Animated Series. So what difference does it make? The overall continuity is still rendered apocryphal regardless of whether the new canon cribs pieces of it or not.

Eh, the Stargazer books were already in conflict with the screen material anyway, given they depict Vigo as an alien when he was clearly human in The Battle.

In The Buried Age I reconciled that by referencing a bit in Friedman's story "Darkness" that Vigo had been killed in the second strike, so that a human officer took his place at tactical prior to the moment we saw in flashback.

Then again, TNG itself later retconned Vigo as a woman in spite of The Battle.

No, despite reusing the name, "Bloodlines" never said Miranda Vigo was a Stargazer crew member, just an old flame of Picard's.

 

[F. King Daniel]

3. McFadden said no, or the money was too high (not that she'd be expensive, but the show seems to be very budget-conscious).

I read on twitter she was having cancer surgery around the time of filming, although I can't find anything to corroborate or deny it on Google.

 

[Damian]

Good point. Novel fans tend to overlook that the novelverse is just one of several separate tie-in continuities; why should it be favored exclusively over all the others?

Because the novels are better. We don't care about anyone else

It's not a question of "salvage." A story isn't discarded or destroyed just because it's out of continuity with a different story. They're all totally imaginary anyway, canon included.

Ok, granted. What I really mean is that the stories could potentially continue someday with minimal alterations. Which I admit could still conceivably happen. Due to the fact that Picard takes place decades after Stargazer it's not as likely for the Stargazer books to be contradicted by canon as the post-Nemesis books (or at least with some fine-tuning).

And that could probably go for other continuities as well. If it doesn't affect the Stargazer books to a great deal, then it probably doesn't affect the other tie ins either from that time period.

In The Buried Age I reconciled that by referencing a bit in Friedman's story "Darkness" that Vigo had been killed in the second strike, so that a human officer took his place at tactical prior to the moment we saw in flashback

Nicely done. You guys (and gals) have a good eye for detail like that. That's why I always say sometimes I see things reconciled in novels that I never realized were inconsistent.

 

[Christopher]

Ok, granted. What I really mean is that the stories could potentially continue someday with minimal alterations. Which I admit could still conceivably happen. Due to the fact that Picard takes place decades after Stargazer it's not as likely for the Stargazer books to be contradicted by canon as the post-Nemesis books (or at least with some fine-tuning).

Back when I was just a fan -- and still pretty much now as a fan and writer -- my policy was to keep whatever was consistent with canon... until it stopped being consistent, at which point I'd rework things. No point getting ahead of the facts, worrying about hypothetical future possibilities -- just stay current with where things are at the moment. Adapt to change when it happens, not before.