Is Toxic "Star Wars" Fandom Imploding?
- Thread starter Locutus of Bored
- Start date
In your case? Best just make it like George from Seinfeld and go with the opposite of your instincts...
I'm thinking I need to send my opinions to certain posters first. They can then change them and then I can put my name to them, lol. Luke should have died. I'm thrilled about it. Rey is perfectIn your case? Best just make it like George from Seinfeld and go with the opposite of your instincts...
Nothing in that post made it sound like you appreciated his death.
Although nothing made it sound you hated it either, it was very neutral.
To add to this, there's no correct answer. If you don't like Rey as a character, or you don't appreciate Luke's death, it really is okay. I think the biggest thing (and I'm not pointing out anyone in particular here) is that there are some very dubious methods about complaining about these movies and the characters, particularly regarding Rey, that come off very sexist. And honestly, its possible that some of us who do appreciate her character are a little sensitive to the complaints, because they come frequently from the same few sources.
It just gets tiresome and we might just need to agree to disagree about Rey as a character until we have more material to judge on.
It just gets tiresome and we might just need to agree to disagree about Rey as a character until we have more material to judge on.
Those themes have been in Star Wars before. TLJ just focused upon them in different ways.
Oh I don't mind the idea of the old guard passing on it's just the way they did it that bothers me. This putting down of the old to build up the new. Why not set the movie after those characters are gone and have new heroes need to rise or even just have a bigger bad than our old heroes can face and thus we need bigger good to counter it. I don't expect an aging voice actor to be the star of Disney's new franchise I just wish he could have been rescued by Rey from a Sith temple or found by Rey as he held out against impossible odds and now that she is here he can finally pass on the uber important message before letting go. Obi Wan left because he had a new hope for the galaxy to do what he could not. Luke lingered past that point tarnishing his legacy i.m.o
Ignoring the prequels because personally I dislike them as much as the new I don't think we ever had them anywhere near so prominent. People on here have picked up themes of 'nam and other stuff and I don't have a problem with that kind of reading between the lines kind of thinking but on the surface the OT is a fairy tale and to me at least that's what Star Wars should be. Let your side stories be full of grey characters. Don't give me my male lead trying to bale at the start of the movie. Give Poe more importance to the tale rather than getting under another characters feet. And give Rey more of a story arch. This could be entirely retroactive of me but what Tuskin said about the plan being for us to skim most of the episode 7 we got makes sense. Maybe when the trilogy is done episode seven will be more comparable to episode 1 than it currently appears. (My stance being that the prequels should have condensed episode 1 down to back story and opening crawl to get to the story and give everyone more time being fleshed out and developed.)
I'm just gonna dial up Bizarro Kibbin every time I enter the Star Wars threads now.I'm thinking I need to send my opinions to certain posters first. They can then change them and then I can put my name to them, lol. Luke should have died. I'm thrilled about it. Rey is perfect
Me am Kibizarro
Kibizarro am number one poster.
Me love new star wars movies!
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Here's the thing though. You can't ignore the PT because they are part of the story, which means the themes and material are fair game to be explored. Slavery? Anakin was a slave. In Solo, so was Chewbacca and other Wookiees. Murder? What about Rogue One and one of the leads killing an informant in his first scene?
It sounds nice to try and keep the fantasy elements of SW but that isn't what the films have done. They have delved in to larger themes over the course of their run. TLJ is neither new nor unique in this matter.
LFL's biggest screw-up is not knowing what type of story they wanted to be told. There should have been some plot points mapped out ahead of time instead of letting a new director come in and tell whatever story he wanted, regardless of the previous story. This is a screw-up by LFL and I think LFL also deserves blame for the directors they have hired. They fired two directors, hired one who just did his own thing just for the hell of it and hired another one (JJ) who is only capable of doing homages to more talented and creative filmmakers.
Luke becoming one with the Force was the least surprising thing about The Last Jedi. As soon as the sequels were announced, I knew that would be Luke's fate. Why was that a surprise to anyone?
Luke becoming one with the Force was the least surprising thing about The Last Jedi. As soon as the sequels were announced, I knew that would be Luke's fate. Why was that a surprise to anyone?
Like 'em or lump 'em, they're there and part of the picture. We aren't about to collectively ignore them and they are part of the mainstream SW backstory.
"Don't give me my male lead trying to bale at the start of the movie", don't you see you're now literally spelling out what people have been saying? You've criticised the film for having Rey apparently flawless and depicted as a black and white image of perfection (she really isn't), but now it's the opposite with regard to Finn. So if it had been the other way round and Rey had been weak, fearful and reliant upon Finn you'd have been fine with it? Even though she is someone whose character and background is defined by self reliance whereas he is an almost perfect example of someone institutionalised and unable to cope on his own?
Do you want complexity and balance in your characters or do you want them to be caricatures? At the moment you are selectively picking and choosing and doing so in a way that reinforces the stereotype of heroic male and damsel in distress that so many people object to as being sexist.
Vietnam as an allegory was always written quite blatantly into SW every bit as much as it was in TOS, feel free to ignore that by all means but it really isn't people reading something into the movies that wasn't there. Thee fact is most of posting here who remember the films being new doubtless missed it at the time because we were children, but there's no way of denying that if we had the benefit of an adults eyes at the time the relevance would have been painfully obvious.
I assume you mean episode 4? If so you may not like the prequels (for the most part I agree with you), but it's going to be difficult to have a coherent discussion if you are using you own private numbering system.
If so did you notice that one of the main criticisms of TFA was the way it was already too similar to ANH? That it was a virtual remake done by the numbers? We don't need a checklist on what SW should be or what a film has to contain to be valid, we need a modern iteration of the franchise relevant to our times which is exactly what Rey and co. offer us.
I'm thinking I need to send my opinions to certain posters first. They can then change them and then I can put my name to them, lol. Luke should have died. I'm thrilled about it. Rey is perfect
You know perfectly well having your own opinions isn't the issue, it's being deliberately obtuse with incredibly weak arguments and continuing to do so in order to get a rise out of others that is. If it wasn't an established pattern of behaviour for you then maybe this thread would have gone differently but you're too well known and too established in your reputation now to claim otherwise.
If you are going to make definitive, objective sounding statements such as "Rey is a Mary Sue" then be prepared to have them challenged, especially if your explanations of such an obviously provocative statement are so weak as those you have offered. You've made them fully aware of the political implications, of the underlying themes which are being discussed and gleefully done so knowing the controversy you would cause despite having no actual case or argument of note to offer beyond reciting what you have seen plastered over Youtube comments and having chose that side of the conversation in order to antagonise the many people you have issues with. So please stop playing the victim, it's embarrassing. @Kibbin is at least bothering to listen and respond meaningfully, you are just playing your silly narcissistic games yet again, manipulating well meaning people into being proxies for your nonsense under the guise of agreeing with them.
I await the report on this post and, who knows, maybe even a well earned infraction? I'll take it with a smile having told you exactly what so many people are itching to.
Have a nice day.
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Saying it's like another bad point in the franchise isn't a selling point. Now if you like them, more power to you but there was talk when episode 7 came out that they would try and sweep some of the prequel stuff under the rug and forget about hence why the OT got a few call outs and the prequel got some pod racing banners outside the bar.
Or we have some balance. I can and will complain about one lead be a super bad ass and one being a coward unless this is a comedic cartoon where that is the point. If you want to do Kim Possible then do Kim Possible. Here it just feels unbalanced.
I never said it wasn't there. What I'm saying is that on the surface it worked as a standard fair tale about Knights and wizards and giant walking carpets. These ones don't. Fairy tales often have a lot of subtext just like Super hero movies and sci-fi. The key when you're making a family friendly fantasy film is to keep it subtext.
No I mean episode one, TPM. It's far too pointless in relation to the rest of the movie. You have Qui gon stealing Kenobi's set up despite the fact that he is gone by the end. I.M.O you could pretty much sum it up and stick it in the opening crawl. It's possible that when this trilogy is done the new movies will be better by me saying the same though I doubt it as I don't think TFA can be so easily stuck in an opening crawl.
I'm an example!
Saying that the new films can't explore those themes that have been explored in the past is demonstrating ignorance of the films in general. This isn't about whether I like them or not-it's about the larger themes that have been explored by the series in the past. TLJ isn't the first but it is being condemned more vehemently as being "anti-Star Wars" (small hyperbole) because of exploring themes like murder, insubordination and moral grayness is what ROTS did especially. Let's not pretend that Star Wars was always some fantasy fairy world where dark themes were never explored. Precisely the opposite. Fairy stories developed as way of exploring darker or difficult themes in a way that was more imaginative and less restricted by contemporary times or places.
Regardless, Star Wars has set a precedent of going to darker places, not staying lighter. So, again, we can't throw TLJ under the bus without acknowledging past works like ESB and ROTS.
Yeah but your holding it up against a disliked part of your franchise. Now it made money and if the creators are going for more of that then fine. But my problem there is that if you are taking of a franchise which has three lauded movies (generally) and three poo poo'd movies(generally) then you will want to aim for more of the first lot than the second. I'm not saying that if people complained about somthing you should never try it again (you give yourself a lower target to reach after all) just that they are only hitting the same level.
Also while ESB was dark I don't think it should be put with RotS which saw our lead slaughter younglings and his wife die for no real reason. Empire was dark in that it looked like the bad guys were winning. That was it. Even the morally ambiguous Lando was a good guy by movies end showing us whose side he was really on. Luke had lost a fight but was saved and was getting a new hand. You didn't get the feeling when he was looking out over the star field that he had given up or that he was tempted to join his Dad. (Something that Mark pitched hard and was turned down). Our heroes were still heroes they were just in a bad way.
But, I don't want the franchise repeating itself either. Just because the PT is regarded poorly doesn't mean the themes are not worth exploring. It also doesn't mean that the franchise gets to cut away the parts they don't like. This is still the Star Wars saga films, warts and all.
I'll also note that Rogue One, highly lauded, involved the wholesale slaughter of the heroes, as well as a hero committing murder at the beginning of the film. Why is that not objectionable but TLJ is?
I have problems with Rogue One make no mistake on that. However in fairness to it and as I said up above they made a point of separating it from the main line by dropping the number and opening crawl and calling it a "star wars story".
Also I never said we need to hack it off like a gangrenous limb. Just over look it. If you're going to make more Star Trek you don't focus on the boring hum drum ent first two seasons nor on spocks brain or Threshold. It doesn't mean they didn't happen just that we're not going to focus on them. Another thing being that I understand that trying again isn't necessarily a bad thing (as I said it gives you a lot lower goal to aim for) but in my mind they don't surpass that very low mark. Flipping from Poe getting his battle ideas from bart simpson to Luke saying the Jedi should end is going from Jar Jar stepping in some poo to Anakin killing some younglings (exaggeration I know but you get the idea)
But wasn't Luke supposed to be the new guard?
Maybe I am too critical because prior to EP 8 I watched EP 1/7