Is Toxic "Star Wars" Fandom Imploding?
- Thread starter Locutus of Bored
- Start date
I actually don't get the idea. I don't see a difference between the side stories and the main story largely because they are still Star Wars stories and they can have recurring themes and story beats. Again, not to repeat myself, just because the PT was poor in presentation doesn't mean the themes are not worth exploring.
Secondly, specifically regarding Poe, the whole idea that he should be good at fast talking enemy officers and good at flying and good at everything else is a problem. I don't want Poe to be good at everything. I don't mind failures or the heroes not succeeding.
The same thing with Luke saying the Jedi should end. Luke saw the repeated mistakes of the past Jedi Order and had his mind changed. That's shouldn't be downplayed the way that it is. It's very important to recognize both the mistakes of the past, and, to tie back to your point, to not cut off a limb but to save what's still good. That's the lesson Luke needed to learn. And, I think the film did it well.
Who says it's the end?
I just mean your original heroes to your new ones not the old Jedi order to the new, sorry my bad.
You have labelled it differently, you have told people going in that it's different that the other stuff. It's like the difference between the netflix MCU and the blockbuster MCU. Again I have problems with Rogue One but you don't expect Jessica Jones and Iron Fist to play the same as Captain America and Thor.
And I'd still agree with that but I don't think they do it much better at juggling the whole thing.
I'm not going to touch that or we are going to be back on the merry go round for another spin so I'll just say that the problem was that they seemed to be aiming for humour in that scene. The humour wasn't very good and it jarred with the rest of the movie. Rogue One kept it's humour pretty much exclusively to one sarcastic robot. You wanna do dark and gritty then don't have Poe ringing up the First order asking for Amanda Hugankiss.
I think had Luke been doing that we could have gone along with it. Was he finding out the source of the Force or hunting down ancient lore and artifacts so they couldn't ruin another generation then fine. Our hero is still trying to save the galaxy and the key word there is try. Even if he's not succeeding, even if he is having to pass on this task to a new generation. Even if he is fighting a new generation to do so. This is Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon an over the top pop sci fi action star we don't want to see him brought low and sucking on a space cows nipple.
You realize the series is multigenerational? A trilogy of trilogies? Each trilogy is a saga for the younger generation to watch. Therefore, yeah, they’re going to have new heroes. I think that point is set up very clearly watching the films chronologically when Obi-Wan, the true hero of the prequels, is struck down in the first story in the middle trilogy.
I honestly wonder if they aren’t going to steal a page from the original draft of ROTJ and have Luke return from the “netherworld.” Other than the blue glow, Yoda was pretty much physical in TLJ. And if you look, each successive entry in the series, the ghosts become more and more able to interact with their environments. Yeah, it was a little goofy that Yoda could shoot down Force lightning from the sky but maybe that’s leading to something.
There is a range of possibilities, I mean even with how characters are re-imaged, de-aged, and even well (if necessary), the actors brought back if they are no longer. I don't mean to be ageist but a glimpse of Luke again I would prefer to be a less disillusioned one.
Saving the Resistance and inspiring the entire galaxy to not only fight off the First Order but the power dynamics that allowed it to develop in the first place is sad and bitter? Luke did more good with his last act than any Jedi before him and it was a more awesome display of power than we've ever seen. He projected himself across the galaxy, schooled Kylo's ass without touching him and even showed the rest of the First Order that Kylo isn't as strong as he claims to be, possibly leading to them turning on him. He's set up the destruction of the First Order, a rebellion against the wealthy who profit off constant war and inspired a new generation of Jedi who are just waiting to be trained by his last apprentice Rey.
How is that sad and bitter? He died, but he's not immortal. Even Yoda knew this.
Fair. I do think we got that in the end, and I think being one with the Force, he will definitely reach that “peace and purpose” it’s suggested he’s found.
It was clearly on his face. Claiming that Luke got a bad ending is either horribly misreading the film or dishonesty.
Yup.
I was talking about themes and story beats. I also try to minimize my expectations of a product going in.
Agree to disagree because I think they did fine.
Again, agree to disagree. But, humor is highly subjective.
But, he didn't have a reason to try. He saw his own failure, it was a repeat of past failures. So, it makes sense from a character point of view. It could simply be he felt that the Jedi had ruined the galaxy and that was his way of saving it. To us, it isn't rational but it's Luke processing his failure. And, I thoroughly was engaged in that journey, failures and all.
"bad ending" is a purely subjective thing. If people think he got a bad ending, that's their right to feel that way. How many people feel Kirk had a bad ending? There will always be some people who don't like how these death scenes were plotted out.
I can feel a lot of things. That doesn't always make them accurate.
Huh? Accurate? You can't assign a math proof to whether someone has a right to like or dislike something.
He saved his sister and the Resistance. Not sure how that is a bad ending?
Everyone has the right to feel. But our feelings are not always accurate. That's all I'm saying.
It's a bad ending for those who wanted a physical Luke to get into a real saber battle. Is that fanservice? Sure. But TLJ had fanservice elsewhere, Luke touring the Falcon, the R2D2 bit, the dice, etc... It was something some people really wanted and they felt denied by the astral projection aspect.
I actually think Han's death was more of a cheap-shot than Luke's, though. Luke actually had a bit of a twist to it whereas everyone knew Han was toast the minute he walking onto a "dramatic Star Wars platform"(TM).
It is fiction. Sometimes you are going to get the things you want, other times you won't. I wanted Kirk to go out on the bridge of the Enterprise. He went out on a land bridge having saved 200 million people on Veridian II. It wasn't what I wanted, but at the same time, I have a hard time calling it a "bad" ending.
Luke's ending isn't what *I* expected or wanted walking in to TLJ. But I found it an extremely satisfying ending as by choosing not to fight and becoming the greatest of all Jedi. Luke "used the Force for knowledge and defense," not for attack. And at the same time, he created a symbol for the downtrodden to unify behind. That's a pretty amazing thing!