Is Toxic "Star Wars" Fandom Imploding?

[fireproof78]

It's one thing to not agree with some things. But if the thing you disagree with is diversity itself...

Then what? People stop watching it? Again, my experience has been people watch shows for different reasons. They may miss the political aspects, or simply ignore it and conform it to their own point of view.

Not saying it makes perfect sense, but that people do that. In my experience. Which seems to be outside of other's experience. So, I'll leave it at that because this seems to be going in circles and not benefiting anyone.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If all else fails, always go with Jar Jar.

I was torn between Jar Jar and Admiral Fishhead, but then I realized deesa boyos really are maken da inna boomba.

My vote pretty much cast itself at that point.

 

[Starbreaker]

The vocal minority always gets the most press because they have the most time to voice their opinion on how every frame of a movie "raped their childhood." They rest of us have lives to live.

 

[The Wormhole]

An interpretation of the TLJ the Fans want:
https://twitter.com/frodesignco/sta...oull-love-this-fan-made-parody-poster-2350602

 

[Tuskin38]

Is that cooked Porg on the oven tray?

 

[Awesome Possum]

Snoke with the projector displaying his origin is the best part.

 

[fireproof78]

The slides of his vacation were amazing.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Lets admit the real reason so many hated TLJ. Rian ruined Luke Sykwalker. Until the last few minutes of the film he finally acts. If it wasnt for Yoda Luke was willing to let Leia and the rest of the rebels.....sorry resistance die. This is the same guy that left dagobah and his training to face vader in an attempt to save his friends? Yeah Luke was never perfect but he also always fought the good fight. Sad ending to a once great character. Now all well get is a lame force ghost cameo in the next film.

 

[Tuskin38]

Rian ruined Luke Sykwalker.

No, he made him human.

 

[fireproof78]

Lets admit the real reason so many hated TLJ. Rian ruined Luke Sykwalker. Until the last few minutes of the film he finally acts. If it wasnt for Yoda Luke was willing to let Leia and the rest of tge rebels.....sorry resistance die. This is the same guy that left dagobah and his training to face vader in an attempt to save his friends? Yeah Luke was never perfect but he also always fought the goid fight. Sad ending to a once great character. Now all well get is a lame force ghost cameo in the next film.

I disagree. I think Rian ruined a perception of Luke, not the character of Luke himself. There is nothing sad about his ending, unless Obi-Wan's death is similarly sad.

 

[Tuskin38]

Anyways, the idea of Luke going into hiding after the fall of his academy came from Lucas and Co. not Rian.

Rian executed it, but the root of it came from discussions before even TFA was written.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Lets admit the real reason so many hated TLJ. Rian ruined Luke Sykwalker. Until the last few minutes of the film he finally acts. If it wasnt for Yoda Luke was willing to let Leia and the rest of tge rebels.....sorry resistance die. This is the same guy that left dagobah and his training to face vader in an attempt to save his friends? Yeah Luke was never perfect but he also always fought the goid fight. Sad ending to a once great character. Now all well get is a lame force ghost cameo in the next film.

Luke was a crap character from the start. Rian Johnson was the first person who ever actually made him interesting.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Luke was a crap character from the start. Rian Johnson was the first person who ever actually made him interesting.

No Rian made a turd out of Luke. This guy took down the first death star, faced vader when he wasn't ready to save his friends and ultimately brought his father back from the dark side. Rians version has him contemplating murdering his nephew before Ren even did Vader like atrocities. Basically Ren was possibly savable. Rey pleads for Lukes assistance and he doesn't help until all the resistance are dead but about a dozen. Luke only acts once Yoda gives him one last lesson. Rian marginalized the character and even Hamill thought it stunk and wouldnt work with fans.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

No Rian made a turd out of Luke. This guy took down the first death star, faced vader when he wasn't ready to save his friends and ultimately brought his father back from the dark side. Rians version has him contemplating murdering his nephew before Ren even did Vader like atrocities. Basically Ren was possibly savable. Rey pleads for Lukes assistance and he doesn't help until all the resistance are dead but about a dozen. Luke only acts once Yoda gives him one last lesson. Rian marginalized the character and even Hamill thought it stunk and wouldnt work with fans.

He whined and complained his way through the entire OT. He was a spoiled, stupid brat who was annoying to watch, until RotJ when he magically turned into a superwizard with no personality whatsoever. TLJ was the first time he was ever a relatable human being that I actually enjoyed watching and it did such a great job in that that I was actually sad to see him go, despite my earlier feelings on the character (though death rarely actually means much to a jedi anyway).

And if Mark Hamill actually was so much against the script, he could've walked away and refused to do it. I have no sympathy for actors who cash a paycheck and then turn around and trash their own projects as if they weren't themselves also responsible for their own work. Of course, this probably isn't even relevant to Mark Hamill anyway since, as I understand it, he has outright said that he was wrong in his original fears regarding the characterization.

 

[Tuskin38]

No Rian made a turd out of Luke. This guy took down the first death star, faced vader when he wasn't ready to save his friends and ultimately brought his father back from the dark side. Rians version has him contemplating murdering his nephew before Ren even did Vader like atrocities. Basically Ren was possibly savable. Rey pleads for Lukes assistance and he doesn't help until all the resistance are dead but about a dozen. Luke only acts once Yoda gives him one last lesson. Rian marginalized the character and even Hamill thought it stunk and wouldnt work with fans.

Yoda did the exact same thing as Luke after ROTS.

 

[Campe]

No Rian made a turd out of Luke. This guy took down the first death star, faced vader when he wasn't ready to save his friends and ultimately brought his father back from the dark side. Rians version has him contemplating murdering his nephew before Ren even did Vader like atrocities. Basically Ren was possibly savable. Rey pleads for Lukes assistance and he doesn't help until all the resistance are dead but about a dozen. Luke only acts once Yoda gives him one last lesson. Rian marginalized the character and even Hamill thought it stunk and wouldnt work with fans.

I think it comes down to the ol’ “If you knew what Hitler would do before he did it, and you had a chance to stop him, would you?” thing. One thing you have to remember is that Luke also learned an awful lot about Sidious, the Sith, the fall of the republic and the fall of the Jedi order between trilogies.

Luke Skywalker: Lesson two. Now that they're extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, deified. But if your strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure. Hypocrisy, hubris.

Rey: That's not true.

Luke Skywalker: At the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader.

Rey: And a Jedi who saved him. Yes. Your father was the most hated man in the galaxy. He caused so much death and destruction for many years. But you saw there was conflict inside him. You believed that he wasn't gone. That he could be turned.

Luke Skywalker: And I became a legend. For many years, there was balance and then I saw Ben. My nephew with that mighty Skywalker blood. In my hubris, I thought I could train him, I could pass on my strengths. Han was Han was about it, but... Leia trusted me with her son. I took him, and a dozen students, and began a training temple. By the time I realized I was no match for the darkness rising in him, it was too late.

Luke saw the exact same failings in himself as he did in the Jedi Order. He saw an evil in his nephew he didn’t think he could stop. And if he tried, it might have been worse for the galaxy.

So Luke went to face him. He states that the darkness was powerful. The idea is there that he would do terrible things. And it was ultimately all on Luke. So he contemplated killing Ben. Just as I’m certain many of us would contemplate killing Hitler if we were in the position to stop him. But he realized that he couldn’t. But it was too late. The damage had been done. And Kylo’s journey to the dark was complete.

Luke failed. But it was because of one moment of weakness that he couldn’t come out of because of the dire consequences he saw rise out of the ashes of the Jedi Order.

This idea that Luke wouldn’t make a mistake, that he’s this perfect hero is ludicrous. Luke was never perfect. He had the same hubris as the Jedi Order. But, his hubris, flaws and failures led him to be so relatable. In the end, he became a greater legend hero not fighting. By becoming what he couldn’t do in life but could do as being one in the Force — he became legend.

His story, to me, at least, is so more compelling than the “he wussed out and ran away and was a failure and didn’t even fight with his lightsaber against everyone at the end!” that I see all over the place. That wouldn’t have done anything for me. This? This stuck with me. And made me truly appreciate Luke’s journey.

 

[fireproof78]

Rian marginalized the character and even Hamill thought it stunk and wouldnt work with fans.

And yet Hamil has rethought those thoughts and recognized the value in Luke's journey.

Also, as a secondary observation, why are Force Ghosts relegated to some diminished form even though, in the story, it is actually a positive. Obi-Wan states he will become "more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Yoda states "luminous beings we are, not this crude (pinches Luke's skin) matter." So, Luke is transitioning to a higher plane of existence, with influence and power still to exert. He is fulfilling a large mythological trope of ascending to greater awareness and consciousness. Why is that minimized?

Luke saw the exact same failings in himself as he did in the Jedi Order. He saw an evil in his nephew he didn’t think he could stop. And if he tried, it might have been worse for the galaxy.

So Luke went to face him. He states that the darkness was powerful. The idea is there that he would do terrible things. And it was ultimately all on Luke. So he contemplated killing Ben. Just as I’m certain many of us would contemplate killing Hitler if we were in the position to stop him. But he realized that he couldn’t. But it was too late. The damage had been done. And Kylo’s journey to the dark was complete.

Luke failed. But it was because of one moment of weakness that he couldn’t come out of because of the dire consequences he saw rise out of the ashes of the Jedi Order.

This idea that Luke wouldn’t make a mistake, that he’s this perfect hero is ludicrous. Luke was never perfect. He had the same hubris as the Jedi Order. But, his hubris, flaws and failures led him to be so relatable. In the end, he became a greater legend hero not fighting. By becoming what he couldn’t do in life but could do as being one in the Force — he became legend.

His story, to me, at least, is so more compelling than the “he wussed out and ran away and was a failure and didn’t even fight with his lightsaber against everyone at the end!” that I see all over the place. That wouldn’t have done anything for me. This? This stuck with me. And made me truly appreciate Luke’s journey.

Luke was my favorite character in the OT. I never identified with Han and found him frustrating. I could at least appreciate Luke's longing for adventure, his impatience and the like. TLJ just added more to his relatability.

Well said.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Also, as a secondary observation, why are Force Ghosts relegated to some diminished form even though, in the story, it is actually a positive. Obi-Wan states he will become "more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Yoda states "luminous beings we are, not this crude (pinches Luke's skin) matter." So, Luke is transitioning to a higher plane of existence, with influence and power still to exert. He is fulfilling a large mythological trope of ascending to greater awareness and consciousness. Why is that minimized?

An excellent question.

For myself, Luke is made more human in the TLJ. He not only has magical powers, but he has suffered life-altering failures. The second thing gives him things in common with actual people. The first, not so much.

 

[Campe]

Why is that minimized?

Good question!

I would not be surprised in Episode IX to see Luke not with Rey but with Ben. That would make Luke even more powerful. It would be different. And there’s the hinting with the “See you around, kid!” Or maybe they’ll steal a page from the original drafts of ROTJ and have him “come back from the netherworld.” That is the ultimate victory of the Force, right there.

 

[TRON JA307020]

And yet Hamil has rethought those thoughts and recognized the value in Luke's .

I think he just got a call from the studio. He was causing a lot of negativity before the film and the studio probably told him to stop.