If an Andorian military academy would mean that SF is a military organization, then the Vulcan science academy would contradict that and mean SF is a scientific organization. One planet's academy doesn't define the whole fleet's role.
Is Starfleet a military organization?
- Thread starter Commander Troi
- Start date
No. I'm not sure it is in Starfleet's case, either, except in some characters' opinions. As I said before, exploring space has been depicted as so dangerous in Trek that divorcing the exploring and combat roles doesn't seem realistic.
And they had a lot of scattered territory to protect, police, support etc. But of course it was primarily a war-fighting force, no question about that. But it keeps being brought up that military services don't do this or that thing that Starfleet does, but the RN did all those things.
Yeah, of course.
FWIW, Merriam-Webster says this [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/military]:
Anything but the detail needed to get to the bottom of this, in terms of the frequency of its use as a noun in particular quarters, but it does at least support the assertion that its use as an adjective well predated its use as a noun.
First Known Use of military
Adjective
15th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1a
Noun
1709, in the meaning defined at sense 1
Adjective
15th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1a
Noun
1709, in the meaning defined at sense 1
Anything but the detail needed to get to the bottom of this, in terms of the frequency of its use as a noun in particular quarters, but it does at least support the assertion that its use as an adjective well predated its use as a noun.
I dug around the transcripts and found more references I had totally forgotten:
For "it is":
BASHIR: Admiral Ross and his staff will be discussing the exciting military issues.
JELLICO: I believe a military confrontation may be unavoidable.
GOWRON: Furthermore, if the Federation still harbours any hope of peaceful coexistence with the Klingon Empire, it must abandon all Starbases and military installations in the Archanis Sector.
For "it is not":
JANEWAY: Directive zero one zero. Before engaging alien species in battle, any and all attempts to make First Contact and achieve non-military resolution must be made.
And basically this thread XD:
DATA: I have been designed with a fundamental respect for life in all its forms and a strong inhibition against causing harm to living beings.
FAJO: What a marvellous contradiction. A military pacifist. Tell me, whose dreadful decision was it to enlist you in Starfleet to begin with?
For "it is":
BASHIR: Admiral Ross and his staff will be discussing the exciting military issues.
JELLICO: I believe a military confrontation may be unavoidable.
GOWRON: Furthermore, if the Federation still harbours any hope of peaceful coexistence with the Klingon Empire, it must abandon all Starbases and military installations in the Archanis Sector.
For "it is not":
JANEWAY: Directive zero one zero. Before engaging alien species in battle, any and all attempts to make First Contact and achieve non-military resolution must be made.
And basically this thread XD:
DATA: I have been designed with a fundamental respect for life in all its forms and a strong inhibition against causing harm to living beings.
FAJO: What a marvellous contradiction. A military pacifist. Tell me, whose dreadful decision was it to enlist you in Starfleet to begin with?
No, not even close. That reads exactly like a rule of engagement, something that real world militaries use all of the time.
Quite.
In fact, as I've said several times, the fact that "military resolutions" are an option for Starfleet legally requires them to be a "military (science and diplomatic) organization" under the mid-20th Century to current definitions.
Indeed. Besides, the same episode that quote is taken from (In the Flesh) includes two other references to Starfleet being a military:
Remember, one point in this discussion was what Starfleet's primary/main task is. This says military actions are the last on the list, last resort, only if all else fails. Do real world militaries make such decisions, instead of politicians and diplomats?
Do you remember that this episode showed how 8472 was completely mistaken, and how Janeway convinced them that their impression was wrong....?
"It's a good thing too we avoided that military conflict as Voyager is not a military ship which would lead to awkward discussions between us and 8472."
@Shamrock Holmes's point trumps all of that. They're a military, if they have the authorization to use force as an instrument of the Federation, end of. The fact that they might be "more enlightened" than today's armed forces is irrelevant. Phasers are not "digging tools." They're weapons, they're recognized as such, and they can also be used for digging. Starfleet carries weapons which they're authorized to use in certain circumstances that include the authorization of their use on lethal settings. Starfleet is literally an armed force. Military. End of.
Of course. The military decisions would be based on orders which incorporate whatever the government (politicians, diplomats) wants.
Then all police and security forces in the world are militaries?
So it's the generals and admirals that negotiate peace or war, and not the diplomats and politicians?
The example brought up was an order governing what the captain of a ship should do in a situation. Operational decisions. A whole different level than diplomatic negotiation.
Some are, some aren't.
As I've said before, what are aren't is civilians.
Police forces that have partial or sole jurisdiction over the civilian population are typically not military, however some military police units do have dual jurisdiction and these typically draw from military personnel. Police special operations/rescue units may also draw from military personnel in some countries.
Because police officers (even members of paramilitary units) are not in general authorised to engage in warfare outside of their own country.
Security forces vary, but again it comes down whether they have been authorised to or not, typically such orders will be "cut" for a particular mission, depending on the rules of engagement agreed by the politicians.
You say Starfleet is a military, I say it isn't. Military, Para-Military. Let's call the whole thing off!
Doesn't matter. That's a question of operational ethos, not legal categorization. If you are the agency of the state charged with using force to defend the state in times of war, then you are the state's military.
Police forces do not defend the state in times of war.
This has been a historical reality. Perhaps most famously, it was the Allied military flag officers who negotiated the surrenders of the German Reich and Japanese Empire in 1945; the Japanese instrument of surrender was even signed aboard the USS Missouri.
And once again, no other organization but a military has the authority to operate a system of courts-martial whereby a separate body of law applies to their members and they can arrest you and imprison you if you violate that separate law. Subway cannot imprison you for violating the Subway Code of Conduct. Neither can a police force for violating the police department's code of conduct. Only a military can do that.
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