Is Starfleet a military organization?

[The Wormhole]

Short Answer: NO

Long answer: Have I posted on this subject before? Can't remember. But I have been watching TNG episodes with my grandparents during our quarantine, and Picard LITERALLY SAYS in the Season 2 episode "Peak Performance" that Starfleet IS NOT a military. The exact quote is "Starfleet is not a military organization. Its purpose is exploration." Whatever may have been the case in TOS, in TNG it is explicitly stated that Starfleet is not a military organization.

I'm going to break my rule of not bringing episode quotes into this and point out that in a season 1 TNG episode, Hide and Q, Q refers to Starfleet as a military.

PICARD: You interfered with our Farpoint mission. You threatened to convict us as ignorant savages, if, while dealing with a powerful and complex life forms, we made the slightest mistake, and when that didn't happen
Q: The Q became interested in you. Does no one here understand your incredible good fortune? Seized my vessel. These are the complaints of a closed mind too accustomed to military privileges.

And what's more, that episode was written by Gene Roddenberry Himself. So what, do we ignore the quote from the all knowing omnipotent being saying Starfleet is a military in a season 1 episode written by Gene Himself, just because a season 2 episode written by a new writer who only went on to write two other episodes in the entire franchise has Picard saying it isn't a military?

This is why we should not be building this argument around episode quotes. The various writers in the franchise has always been contradicting each other on this matter, and some writers have even been contradicting themselves. For example, not long after Roddenberry wrote an episode which does refer to Starfleet as a military, he banned one of the novel writers from writing writing anymore Trek novels just because she dedicated a TNG novel to a friend of hers killed in military service and Roddenberry came down on that saying "Star Trek is not about the military." Which is another thing to consider, Starfleet didn't stop being a military in TNG because of some sort of worldbuilding retcon or whatever, it only stopped being a military in TNG because Roddenberry suddenly and abruptly decided he now hated the military.

The fact of the matter is, despite the franchise's attempt to say Starfleet isn't a military and make that the Official Party Line, Starfleet still behaves exactly as a military does, even to the point of replicating all the ceremonies and traditions of the military exactly down to the littlest details. If anyone seriously expected us to believe Starfleet isn't a military, they should have tried a bit harder to not have Starfleet mimic the military at every turn save for not actually admitting to being a military and actively and repeatedly denying it.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The fact of the matter is, despite the franchise's attempt to say Starfleet isn't a military and make that the Official Party Line, Starfleet still behaves exactly as a military does, even to the point of replicating all the ceremonies and traditions of the military exactly down to the littlest details. If anyone seriously expected us to believe Starfleet isn't a military, they should have tried a bit harder to not have Starfleet mimic the military at every turn save for not actually admitting to being a military and actively and repeatedly denying it.

Which I why I think it's important to distinguish between the historical definition of a military (basically just armies, and probably air forces), the modern definition (any uniformed force that legally fights in war), and the likely in-universe definitions (which aren't specifically developed, but seem more in line with the former than the latter).

Something that I've wondering, would USAMRIID be considered "military" by Starfleet? It's uses military personnel (mostly US Army), but it basically does the same job as the civilian CDC (medical and bio research).

What about military heavy construction forces like the Seebees or REDHORSE or the USCG's disaster response teams?

 

[Tuskin38]

Gene was a former officer of the LAPD (as was his father). That might explain why starfleet also seemed to have a law enforcement aspect to it

 

[Xhiandra]

This is a recurrent question, and I think it just depends on your definition of "military".

If you define a military as an organisation whose prime purpose is warfare or "defense" (warfare), then no, it is not.

If you define a military as an organisation that has a structure with strict ranks and protocol about how the ranks interact with each other, then yes, it is. (but so are many other things we don't currently call militaries)

Starfleet clearly has a military structure, with ranks inspired by military tradition, but its primary stated mission is exploration, not warfare.
It even fulfils diplomatic missions, which is not normally within the purview of military organisations.

 

[Admiral Archer]

And that claim of Picard's is contradicted by the fact that Starfleet operates a system of courts-martial, and by the definition of "military" which Starfleet fulfills to a "T." Please do read through the whole thread instead of digging up the same argument that has been debunked multiple times.

You really expect me to read through 13 pages of a thread that may or may not devolve into some other subject that doesn't pertain to the original post? Sorry but no thanks.

 

[BK613]

The fact of the matter is, despite the franchise's attempt to say Starfleet isn't a military and make that the Official Party Line, Starfleet still behaves exactly as a military does, even to the point of replicating all the ceremonies and traditions of the military exactly down to the littlest details.

Doesn't behave like the Navy I served in. Secondary peacetime activities notwithstanding, the focus and training of that Navy was to fight a war, whether that be a current one or the next one. That was its primary over-riding focus.
Starfleet doesn't focus on war-fighting. It focuses on exploration and discovery and only assumes its role as the Federation's armed forces in an emergent manner, as a situation arises. That is enough for me to consider that it is different.

 

[Tuskin38]

You really expect me to read through 13 pages of a thread that may or may not devolve into some other subject that doesn't pertain to the original post? Sorry but no thanks.

I know you weren't asking me, but I'd expect people to for full context and not to repeat points already addressed. That's the point of a thread.

The thread stayed on topic for 95% of it.

 

[Phil123]

I’ve rarely seen it out better. It’s ana spect of what they do.

It's a military in the same way an iPhone is a phone; it's does everything a phone does but it also does so much more than a traditional phone that the word 'phone' is a massive understatement.
Same with Starfleet. Starfleet are the designated combatants for the Federation but they do so much more that that the word 'military' is a massive understatement for what they are and do.

 

[Sci]

You really expect me to read through 13 pages of a thread

Yes.

 

[NCC-73515]

I guess it's ok though when new posts are on 'your side' of the argument

 

[The Wormhole]

It even fulfils diplomatic missions, which is not normally within the purview of military organisations.

Diplomacy can and has been done by militaries in the past. It's not done as often by them today because communications technology is advanced enough that heads of state can have real time communications instantly across the world, but when deep space exploration and contact with aliens becomes a thing? Yeah, the military will totally be engaging in diplomacy again.

You really expect me to read through 13 pages of a thread that may or may not devolve into some other subject that doesn't pertain to the original post? Sorry but no thanks.

Don't post in a thread you don't intend to read.

Starfleet doesn't focus on war-fighting.

No? According to Disco, they have their own military academy, which Prime Georgiou is a graduate of.

It focuses on exploration and discovery and only assumes its role as the Federation's armed forces in an emergent manner, as a situation arises.

Except patrolling the Federation's borders is also one of Starfleet's duties, even during peacetime.

I guess it's ok though when new posts are on 'your side' of the argument

You may want to watch your accusations there. For the most part, everyone in this thread is being respectful to each other in this thread, even those posting differing opinions. It's not asking too much to expect someone who is posting in a thread to have read the thread in its entirety before they post in it, regardless of who's side their opinion is on.

And yes, I would still be saying this even if it were someone on my side of the argument saying they refuse to read all preceding pages of the thread.

 

[fireproof78]

I guess it's ok though when new posts are on 'your side' of the argument

Is it ever ok to Leroy Jenkins a thread?

 

[BK613]

No? According to Disco, they have their own military academy, which Prime Georgiou is a graduate of.

I'll have to take you r word on that as the new stuff just hasn't enticed me to stream it.

Except patrolling the Federation's borders is also one of Starfleet's duties, even during peacetime.

A law enforcement duty like the USBP...

 

[NCC-73515]

It's not asking too much to expect someone who is posting in a thread to have read the thread in its entirety before they post in it, regardless of who's side their opinion is on.

*Frakes voice* The argument "they fight wars, so they're military" was brought up at least 5 times, "ranks and command structure" 4 times, "court-martial and discipline" 6 times, and no one complained. Now someone repeats, for the first time, a quote arguing against the "it's a military" side, and someone, not you, complains and demands new posters read the whole thread, and, I assume, are also supposed to remember all points made in 15 pages so they're not repeated. Fact or fiction? *Frakes smile*

 

[The Wormhole]

Now someone repeats, for the first time, a quote arguing against the "it's a military" side, and someone, not you, complains and demands new posters read the whole thread, and, I assume, are also supposed to remember all points made in 15 pages so they're not repeated.

That's not what's happening here. One person asked if they were expected to read all preceding 13 pages of the thread, another said yes, you then accused that poster of bias against someone with a differing opinion when no such bias was displayed.

And at this point, we really are off topic, so if you feel there's an issue with anyone's posts, notify a moderator and leave the matter for them to deal with and let the rest of us get back on topic.

 

[GNDN18]

“Tomorrow is Yesterday” answers all questions, settles all arguments.

 

[NCC-73515]

That's not what's happening here. One person asked if they were expected to read all preceding 13 pages of the thread, another said yes, you then accused that poster of bias against someone with a differing opinion when no such bias was displayed.

Do you not see this post? That's what started it, that's what I was referring to. That's what I described. Or not?
(Same here)
"Combined service" was just posted for like the 5th time, is that also a problem?

 

[fireproof78]

“Tomorrow is Yesterday” answers all questions, settles all arguments.

/thread

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Anything's possible, but I don't particularly see why Earth would get a special exception.

Me neither.

From what little evidence we can make out, United Earth is just another Federation member world. It doesn't have any kind of special status that we're aware of - other than the fact that it's one of the founding members, of course. It's not the Federation equivalent of Washington, DC (thank God ).

There wasn't even anything in "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" to indicate that the State of Emergency the President declared on Earth was legally distinct from a State of Emergency he could have declared on another Federation planet.

True dat.

And there was supposed to be a bit about Jaresh-Inyo "federalizing" local UE forces but it got cut from the script.

 

[Tuskin38]

Didn't they also call it Martial Law? Just like Court Martial? Both military terms

I'll have to take you r word on that as the new stuff just hasn't enticed me to stream it.

It's not visible or mentioned on screen, it's just a prop you can only read by looking at a BTS picture.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Laikan_Military_Academy
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKq6ZXfVoAEgJTP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

It's also Andorian, which we know are a very martial people.
Memory-Alpha says it trains people for service in the Andorian military but also offers courses to Starfleet Officers. But that seems like speculation, I don't see anything on the dipolma that says that, unless it's part of the unreadable text.

It does say it's part of the Department of Foreign Studies, which seems to imply it isn't a Starfleet institution. but who knows. It's just a prop.