Is it time to put Star Trek to rest?

[HotRod]

especially when the debated pre-TOS series had rathed dull characters

The irony of you saying this while being a obsessed fan of Kes, is not lost on me.

and didn't look like a pre-TOS serie either.

Discovery can be argued, but Enterprise and Strange New Worlds perfectly aligned with what I think Pre-TOS could look like. Albeit with modern effects and budgets and production design.

But what they have now isn't Romulans but something lukewarm and bland. A defeated people who will be something completly different.

Sometimes shit happens. Look at our own history and how many empires have risen and fallen over the millennia.

Besides, this all sounds like an amazing opportunity for storytelling and making the Romulans far more interesting.

It will be very different

And that's a bad thing? Seems to me that you're afraid of change.

I don't think that it will be as interesting as the original Romulans.

Who really weren't that interesting once you got past the whole Vulcan connection. For the most part they were scheming, mustache twirling villains.

 

[fireproof78]

What did the Romulans do that was that interesting?

I love the Romulans but man they were not that dynamic of a people.

 

[Dar70]

Erm... no.

Definitely not putting Star Trek to rest.

After yesterday's SNW I really wish they would ..

 

[Lynx]

The irony of you saying this while being a obsessed fan of Kes, is not lost on me.

Kes isn't dull!
When it comes to dull, even Flotter was more interesting than the whole ENT cast together.
As for me, i have good taste when it comes to characters!

Discovery can be argued, but Enterprise and Strange New Worlds perfectly aligned with what I think Pre-TOS could look like. Albeit with modern effects and budgets and production design.

Maybe SNW but definitely not ENT.

Sometimes shit happens. Look at our own history and how many empires have risen and fallen over the millennia.

Besides, this all sounds like an amazing opportunity for storytelling and making the Romulans far more interesting.

yes, but in this case it was unnecessary and stupid, obviously some ego-manic producer who wanted to set his mark on Star Trek.

If they want to have something new and interesting, why don't create some new species instead of ruin one which have been an importamnt part of Star Trek since the start.

And that's a bad thing? Seems to me that you're afraid of change.

No, I'm not afraid och change as such. But I don't like changes just for the sake of changing or bad changes.

Unfortunately, i've seen to many bad and unnecessary changes in recent years and i'm not only talking of Star Trek here.

[/QUOTE]Who really weren't that interesting once you got past the whole Vulcan connection. For the most part they were scheming, mustache twirling villains.
[/QUOTE]
Still they were an imporant part of Star Trek and destroying them the way they have done is only stupid.

 

[fireproof78]

 

[fireproof78]

Still they were an imporant part of Star Trek and destroying them the way they have done is only stupid

Nope.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The irony of you saying this while being a obsessed fan of Kes, is not lost on me.

Nor on a lot of other people. I'm at a loss to think of even one interesting thing that Kes ever did or that was done with her. A complete zero.

 

[FredH]

The Romulans were plenty interesting in every era, but it’s good that they’re interesting differently in different eras. Weary and dutiful but disillusioned soldiers in BoT? Great! Enthusiastic schemers in TNG? Great! Unhealthily emotionally complex figures in early PIC? Great! Dissident warrior nuns, also in PIC? Great! Standard traditional villains, also in PIC? …not so great, but it’s a tradition, so hey! Politicking Ni’Var citizens? Great!

Yeah, not seeing the advantage in just leaving them as Space Romans forever.

 

[FredH]

Nor on a lot of other people. I'm at a loss to think of even one interesting thing that Kes ever did or was done with her.

I liked Kes. There was certainly a lot that could have been done with her (just as there was with the whole Marquis/Starfleet mixed crew thing), especially as a character we would’ve seen passing through the various stages of life in real time (have the first season be her “20s”, S2 her “30s”, up through S5 as her “60s” and S7, if she hadn’t yet passed, as her “80s”. And while I’m dreaming, obviously TV doesn’t work this way, but it’d be great if they made sure to have her most important episodes written by writers of the equivalent age, so they’d “get” her in a way they wouldn’t if the whole thing was written by thirtysomethings.

(Plus that would change the whole Neelix relationship from “older guy creepily with young person” into Kes quite naturally just outgrowing him, because after a certain point he’s the kid now.)

(EDIT: Huh. I almost never do “they shoulda done this instead” posts, some comments about Lorca notwithstanding.)

 

[fireproof78]

The Romulans were plenty interesting in every era, but it’s good that they’re interesting differently in different eras. Weary and dutiful but disillusioned soldiers in BoT? Great! Enthusiastic schemers in TNG? Great! Unhealthily emotionally complex figures in early PIC? Great! Dissident warrior nuns, also in PIC? Great! Standard traditional villains, also in PIC? …not so great, but it’s a tradition, so hey! Politicking Ni’Var citizens? Great!

Yeah, not seeing the advantage in just leaving them as Space Romans forever.

That's fair but nothing in there saves them from having a planet being destroyed just because they were there early on.

 

[HotRod]

Kes isn't dull!
When it comes to dull, even Flotter was more interesting than the whole ENT cast together.

Travis Mayweather on his worst days was still far more interesting than Kes ever was. She was a dead weight character who was thankfully removed. It's near universally believed that Voyager was improved, ever so slightly, by the replacement of her with Seven of Nine.

As for me, i have good taste when it comes to characters!

That image you posted is like playing a game of which one of these things is not like the other?

definitely not ENT.

Maybe in your opinion. I have no problem connecting Enterprise to The Original Series.

yes, but in this case it was unnecessary and stupid, obviously some ego-manic producer who wanted to set his mark on Star Trek.

What makes it a necessary. It's a story point. Sometimes cultures change, sometimes not by choice. That's what happened to the Romulans.

If they want to have something new and interesting, why don't create some new species instead of ruin one which have been an importamnt part of Star Trek since the start.

Who says they were ruined. Again, they were mustache twirling villains. They weren't very interesting. By destroying Romulus, they actually added something interesting to their development.

No, I'm not afraid och change as such.

Clear evidence points to the contrary.

But I don't like changes just for the sake of changing or bad changes.

It's a developing narrative. Things can and should change. Otherwise, things get stale and boring, much like a lot of Voyager.

Still they were an imporant part of Star Trek and destroying them the way they have done is only stupid.

But they're not destroyed. The situation has changed but there are still Romulans!

 

[Starflight]

I like Kes.

 

[XCV330]

Kes wasn't remotely interesting until Fury.

 

[Dar70]

The irony of you saying this while being a obsessed fan of Kes, is not lost on me.

Discovery can be argued, but Enterprise and Strange New Worlds perfectly aligned with what I think Pre-TOS could look like. Albeit with modern effects and budgets and production design.

Sometimes shit happens. Look at our own history and how many empires have risen and fallen over the millennia.

Besides, this all sounds like an amazing opportunity for storytelling and making the Romulans far more interesting.

And that's a bad thing? Seems to me that you're afraid of change.

Who really weren't that interesting once you got past the whole Vulcan connection. For the most part they were scheming, mustache twirling villains.

I agree of a lot of what you say EXCEPT ST: ENTERPRISE. I noticed you have mentioned your distaste a couple times for it. I remember when the show first came out people complained about the ship exteriors, interiors and theme song etc.. I liked the show for the most part at the time. The interiors I thought were well done and reminded me of a cramped submarine. Very industrial looking. They did manage to keep some buttons and switches etc.


They also did a good job of slightly updating the TOS interiors for in a mirror darkly and represented the look of TOS very well.

Its biggest flaw was the series finale of course
And there were a few things they messed up continuity wise. But overall. I really enjoyed the show and there are some really great episodes.

I do a admit they could have spent more time with certain characters. But it ended up becoming the ARCHER,TRIP AND T'POL show for the most part. Not that there is anything wrong with that..

 

[HotRod]

I noticed you have mentioned your distaste a couple times for it.

I can assure you I have never expressed a distaste for Enterprise.