Voyager grew stale. Heck, you could argue that Voyager started out stale. But I don't think it was because of the 24th century setting. I don't think DS9 grew stale.
Is it time to put Star Trek to rest?
- Thread starter Dar70
- Start date
That's all fine and good, but I still don't think it's fair to judge a show when you've only seen a fraction of it. You can say that the premise didn't grab you and that it's not for you.
But you can't really call it bad because you simply don't know enough about it to make that judgment.
It be like walking out of From Dusk Till Dawn after the first 20 minutes and calling it a bad Criminals on the Run movie, while being ignorant of the fact it becomes a kick ass Vampire movie in the second half.
Meh. The 24th century look and characters had become so boring and drab by the end of Voyager that I triumphantly embraced Enterprise and everything about it, based solely on the production design and by the fact the characters acted just a little more like actual people. Hell, I still love Faith of the Heart to this day.
In my opinion, it had a lot to do with it. 24th century characters, DS9 mostly excluded*, had become incredibly bland. They improved from early TNG, but not by much. Even production design was just blah by that point. Enterprise gave a top notch production team a chance to finally try something different, and they excelled.
*Hi Barry!
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TNG also got pretty stale the last couple of seasons, I think DS9's big ensemble cast and willingness to focus episodes on almost everyone helped keep things fresher.
I am beginning to think the franchise has nothing left to really offer. Well for me at least for me. Out of all the live action stuff over the last 7 or 8 years. Most of it has been pretty bland/bad to me. With maybe a season and a half of Disco, 1 season of SNW and 1 season of Picard. That I enjoyed to varying degrees.
Everything else I have not really enjoyed. Lower decks was just too inane for me. Only watched one ep of prodigy and they took it off streaming.
Lots of missteps imo the last 8 years. But it just seems like the franchise has run out of steam. I constantly find myself watching the older stuff or finding new scifi fantasy shows that offer something a bit different and unique. Or just plain watching more non scifi stuff now.
But after almost 50 years of some type of Trek in production almost every year (except maybe between Enterprise and the 2009 film) it's gotten pretty stale to me. There are almost 1000 episodes of Trek not to mention like 14 movies.
Many its just my age. Idk.....
But getting old doesn't explain why I love Star Wars Andor...
I think I've enjoyed much more of modern trek than you but I think I've reached a similar point. I made a long thought out thread in the Future of Trek forum saying it's time for paradigm shift / new direction. But I think a rest would be fine too, especially if if means the people in charge think tank together and wait to do a show that is truley ambitious .
I think that you are absolutely wrong here.
I don't find the pre-TOS time period even half as interesting as the 24th century.
Just compare the possibilities with writing stories about slow ships in an area with three interesting species and writing episodes in an are whene there are much more technical posibilities and hundreds of intersting species to write stories and adventures about.
It's like if we would go back to small black-and-white TV.s with only three channels to watch.
Seriously, it's obvious that you don't know anything about me.
I have a lot of interests besides Star Trek, TV shows and music. I travel a lot, read a lot, write a lot (not only Kes and Star Trek stories but about other things as well such as music, sports and travel) and have other interests as well like supporting a local sports teams and certain interests in developing and preserving the society I live in too, not to mention that I like photography and photoshopping.
(Help, it starts to look like some contact ad here!)
I can occupy myself with hobbies 24 hours a day, sometimes I wish that I don't have to sleep to find the time I need to do everything I want.
But I do admit that I'm not happy with the entertainment business, which I have described in other posts here. I don't like most of the current TV shows or series. They are gloomy, dark, depressing with bad stories and bad acting.
Star Trek has been a great part of my life and I'm not happy with the development when it comes to that show. Just to have to check Memory Beta before buying a book because of doing the best to avoid character destruction is evidence for that.
And I don't like the music scene either. It has became stale and monotone. A person who has grown up with Iron Maiden, Metallica, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix and Rolling Stones simply can't listen to Taylor Swift, rap and hiphop.
Yes, let's compare the possibilities. We'll use the 22nd century as an example as it's certainly pre-TOS, and it's a favourite era of mine.
The 22nd century was a time when humanity wasn't the top dog in the galaxy. Earth didn't have a massive fleet, the best technology, or centuries of interstellar experience. But what it did have was courage, determination, boldness, and the drive to explore.
Humans ventured into the true unknown, charting unexplored space, encountering new species at every turn, and laying the groundwork for lasting diplomatic and scientific relationships. They faced conflicts with far older and more powerful civilizations, including a brutal war with the Romulan Star Empire. But from the ashes of that war came something remarkable: the beginnings of a lasting alliance that would become the United Federation of Planets. It was an era of risk, struggle, and forging identity.
Compare this with the 24th century, a time of peace, prosperity, and near-utopia. The Federation has become a major galactic power, guided by principles of cooperation, diplomacy, and post-scarcity idealism. Yet this comfort has come at a cost. Many characters of the era seem emotionally distant, sanctimonious, and arrogant, insulated by technology and protocol, and confident in their moral superiority. They quote regulations as if they were scripture. The hard edge that once defined early explorers has dulled.
It takes a force of nature like the Borg, or a brutal wake up call like the Dominion War, to rattle their cage. Only then is the Federation shaken from its idealistic slumber and reminded of the dangers that still lurk in the wider galaxy.
The 24th century may be the world the explorers of the 22nd century dreamed of, but too many in that era have forgotten the grit, the sacrifice, and the fire it took to get them there.
I still can’t get how low-effort the Enterprise characterisation is. Archer was even more horribly characterised than Janeway, the writers just really never had a handle on the character and neither did Bakula. I did kind of enjoy Vulcan of Nine and Engineer Bones (aka Tucker), but I’ve still absolutely no idea why Malcolm, Travis and Hoshi even exist as characters. What is interesting about them? They’re just big nothingburgers taking up space on the bridge. The creators really were running on fumes at this point.
No offence to ENT fans. I’m genuinely glad it’s more popular with the fans these days. Just not with this one sadly.
Technology wise, what really had to have happened was that the crew was put into their own separate holodecks, where each was the hero of their particular story.
Why? The Metrons are the answer. So much capability in terms of technology, that no matter how advanced the 23rd century crew was, they were totally out of their league.
This was the kindest possible outcome, to be Zoo animals.
In other words, a TOTALLY SICK event.
Sorry mate but that is reductive and objectively wrong - as someone who enjoys the likes of Motley Crue, Def Leopard, Hendrix but also grew up on Eminem, Dre, NWA, and has a soft spot for Taylor, Ed Sheeran, Backstreet Boys I can confirm it is possible to like things which are different and find enjoyment in their differences
As with Trek and TV/Entertainment in general - don't limit yourself! There is so much to enjoy when one approaches it with the mindset of looking to have fun and be (shock horror) entertained rather than approaching it with an attitude of it having to meet a lofty, unobtainable standard based on nostalgia
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I just realized that a thread arguing that Star Trek has nothing new to offer and should not be made anymore is now 13 pages.
I mean, I'm here because I love Star Trek and clearly can't get enough of it.
What are the people who are so over Star Trek because it's old, stale, and can't do anything good anymore doing?
I mean, I'm here because I love Star Trek and clearly can't get enough of it.
What are the people who are so over Star Trek because it's old, stale, and can't do anything good anymore doing?
Erm... no.I am beginning to think the franchise has nothing left to really offer. Well for me at least for me. Out of all the live action stuff over the last 7 or 8 years. Most of it has been pretty bland/bad to me. With maybe a season and a half of Disco, 1 season of SNW and 1 season of Picard. That I enjoyed to varying degrees.
Everything else I have not really enjoyed. Lower decks was just too inane for me. Only watched one ep of prodigy and they took it off streaming.
Lots of missteps imo the last 8 years. But it just seems like the franchise has run out of steam. I constantly find myself watching the older stuff or finding new scifi fantasy shows that offer something a bit different and unique. Or just plain watching more non scifi stuff now.
But after almost 50 years of some type of Trek in production almost every year (except maybe between Enterprise and the 2009 film) it's gotten pretty stale to me. There are almost 1000 episodes of Trek not to mention like 14 movies.
Many its just my age. Idk.....
But getting old doesn't explain why I love Star Wars Andor...
Definitely not putting Star Trek to rest.
…They’re right there…? Now with multiple directions, and added motivations? Including the traditional ones (especially in the 25th century), but now no longer a monoculture?
Given that I still watch older shows, participate in discussion on them, and enjoy them at times with family a show not being produced is hardly its end.
Partial poppycock. Some rap goes down even better with a dash of Bollywood. INSIDE MAN proved that.
That being said, my Beastie Boys allergies were not remedied by STAR TREK BEYOND, but IDIC and such.....
You don't get to define what I like. I grew up on Iron Butterfly, The Clash, X, Sex Pistols, Kraftwerk, Waylon Jennings, Van Halen, Run DMC, Beastie Boys (who are canon, get over it), Level 42 and whatever jazz-fusion I could get my hand son. My mom rest in peace introduced me to all kinds of music and I ran with it. I've played fiddle, dulcimer, slap bass, clawhammer banjo, lap steel guitar, and these days I mostly make Drum-n-bass and prog breakbeat with daw software and hardware synths. My playlist is more eclectic than a library in a tornado. And Swift is awesome. I don't listen to her all day but when I want to, I will.
If you want to narrow what you like, that's fine. But don't try to project that as if its someone else's limitation. IDIC, pal.
Come over to videogames, it's where the fun still is! Baldur's Gate 3 feels at times like a 90s TV series.
I think the prestige-TV era of depressing melodramatic stories is going to go out of fashion over the course of this decade anyway.
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I still find the 24th century scenario a lot more interesting than a pre-TOS series, especially when the debated pre-TOS series had rathed dull characters and didn't look like a pre-TOS serie either.
I agree with most of what you have written.
Janeway was actually OK in the first three seasons, then those in charge turned her into a whacko.
The only characters I liked in ENT were Tucker and Phortos.
The creators you mentioned were burned out already in VOY. It wasn't better with ENT.
But what they have now isn't Romulans but something lukewarm and bland. A defeated people who will be something completly different.
It will be very different and I don't think that it will be as interesting as the original Romulans.
Partial poppycock. Some rap goes down even better with a dash of Bollywood. INSIDE MAN proved that.
That being said, my Beastie Boys allergies were not remedied by STAR TREK BEYOND, but IDIC and such.....
We all have our different taste in music.
And I have mine!
I can listen to a lot of music when it comes to different sorts of rock and even music which isn't rock.
I like Iron Maiden and Metallica but also Beatles, Bob Dylan, The Byrds, Elvis, Johnny Cash, even jazz, country, folk songs, classical music and such.
What I don't like is rap, hiphop and the lightweight syrupy commercial pop which it simply are too much of now.
As for TV shows and movies, you don't know how many movies and series I've tried to watch in recent years, only to turn off after 50 minutes (movies) and 4-5 episodes (series).
Too much gloom, pessimism, gore and doomsday scenarios in today's "entertainment".
You can have your opinions. It's when you try to define everyone else with a broad brush that it gets offensive.
It would be like me saying, "People with creepily obsessive Geocities looking fan pages shouldn't be Swifties or listen to hiphop" That's just an opinion of mine and it shouldn't be me trying to influence anyone. Present company excepted, of course.
Honestly, I don't think I've tried to define anyones opinions except my own in the way that you describe.
I know people with the most different tastes in music and that's not a problem for me.
It's just about my own taste when it comes to music, movies and TV-series.
As it is now, I find very little which I find likeable.
When it comes to music, I can find what i like but I have to dig deep to find it.
When it comes to TV-series and movies, it's a little more difficult.
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