is it hypocritical to believe in a strong welfare state but be against immigration?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by ArcherNX01, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Premium Member

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    Indeed, although I did end up on the New Deal programme which meant I got a bit extra every two weeks and I did get a new suit out of it from the European Social Fund, which I was amazed to see is still a thing.

    And because I went to uni in Stoke on Trent a decade ago now, I am unsurprised that it is now known as the Brexit capital of the UK because of that cycle.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    46.
     
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  3. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    The lack of new houses is the fault of succesive governments.
     
  4. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

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    I’m in favor of open borders, and universal healthcare.
     
  5. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    This is currently happening in Norway. Worth noting the white supremacists are pushing for it.
     
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  6. Lookingglassman

    Lookingglassman Admiral Admiral

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    Before I was a welfare worker I believed people should have it. After working as a welfare worker for two years before walking off that horrible job I wanted the government to get rid of it. I had HORRIBLE clients to deal with. I had one white chick who was 20 and pregnant with her 4th baby. She had a black kid, a white kid a hispanic kid and the one in the oven was another black kid from a stranger she met on the beach who bought her beer. Another chick would get a job, figure she made more being on welfare and quit her job. Another chick's welfare was running out (they only get 5 years worth) and so she brought in her 16 year old daughter who just had a baby to get welfare to keep it coming into that household. That has got to be one of the worst jobs I ever had.
     
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  7. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Rear Admiral Moderator

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    ^ Seriously, "chick"? Perhaps you could join us in 2018 and phrase that non-offensively instead.

    Actually, the whole post is pretty disparaging, and comes across as both anti-woman and anti-poor. Perhaps you didn't intend it that way, but it does read that way.
     
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  8. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They should definitely eradicate the whole Welfare programme because he met some people he doesn't like, who happened to be on it.
     
  9. T'Bonz

    T'Bonz Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

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    Eh, "chick" is really old-school and isn't really offensive, although in these times, everything seems to be. These days, one can't even call a small female child "girl" anymore without someone's panties getting in a wad.

    As for anti-poor? The post isn't anti-poor, it's anti "gaming the system." Most poor people are regular people fallen on hard times or raised poor (hard to get out of that without hard work and very good decision-making) but there are some - number unknown, who game the system.

    My mother still tells stories of how people gamed the system (we were poor and on welfare). But for as many who were gaming the system for a check, others were gaming the system, which at that time had a lot of conditions such as no further education, so they could get OUT of poverty and get rid of welfare. Mostly - people worked under the table to bring in extra $$ and went to night school which back in the early 1960s was verboten.
     
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  10. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    going to night schol was forbidden? Do you mean by the state (as in it being illegal) or was it just a social taboo (as in one doesn't do that) ?
     
  11. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

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    People attempt to "game" the system because the system is rigged against them. It is designed to trap them, to give them just enough to need more, without actually making it possible to attain what they need. It is a vile system, and the poor are the victims in it.
     
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  12. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Especially with that first answer, all I'm hearing is "I'm better than they are".
     
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  13. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

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    It's easy to have self-respect when one isn't treated like they're less than human. That, too, is a fundamental flaw in our system. There are the people on top, the people in the middle, and the people at the bottom. In our system, the people on top tell the people in the middle that the people on the bottom are trying to usurp the position of the people in the middle. The people in the middle believe them, and press down harder on the people at the bottom, because while not everyone can be the people at the top, it's important to never be one of the people at the bottom. The people at the bottom aren't people, they're poor. Being poor in the United States is a grave sin.
     
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  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'd say by your experiences, you are for more money for education and sex education?
     
  15. ArcherNX01

    ArcherNX01 Commander Premium Member

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    Wow, are you all taking about the same welfare state I am?
     
  16. ArcherNX01

    ArcherNX01 Commander Premium Member

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    Well obviously I am if I can land a job that pays over double the min wage and they can't get one that pays the min wage despite "really trying" (LOL).
     
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  17. ArcherNX01

    ArcherNX01 Commander Premium Member

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    We wouldn't need as many immigrants if our own unemployed didn't think the lower jobs were beneath them, so ironically they could beat what they really have a problem with by taking the work.
     
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  18. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Holy shit, you're not even ashamed of your elitism.

    Let me tell you something about the welfare state and society: I myself was unemployed for quite a few years, after I had a pretty good job in the manufacturing of microchips. For the record, I was let go because of downsizing, not because I didn't do a good job. In fact, I got a very favourable recommendation letter. And despite that recommendation letter, I couldn't find another job for years. In three years, I was only invited to four interviews. And, yes, I even applied for cleaning jobs, and at McDonald's. I even had to go after the companies to return my portfolio after they rejected my application. This wasn't because I was a bad worker, it was because there were (and still are) by far more jobless people than there are job offers.

    But, even though I knew that, years of being rejected still affected me, as did the social stigma that goes with being unemployed. It got so bad that for a while I just couldn't send out any more job applications, because I couldn't bear the rejection anymore. I had to go into therapy because of this. And, after some more years, I finally got a job, in retail, which I'm still holding today (almost seven years now), and I've actually been promoted to assistant manager of the store. And yet, I still only get minimum wage. I can live with that, because I'm single and don't plan on changing that, but I certainly couldn't feed a family with this kind of income.

    So, I can very much sympathize with those people who probably came to realize that the chances of getting a better life are abyssmal, and not worth the effort, and they better try and make a living on the little they get from welfare. Because, even though some of them might make it out of unemployment, the vast majority of them won't.

    And I get pretty sick of your own hypocrisy. Yes, being for a strong welfare state while being against immigration is hypocritical (even though based on the justified fear of cuts to welfare because conservatives and neo-liberals like to point the finger at immigrants in order to make those cuts). It's hypocritical to play poor locals against poor immigrants. But you are playing the working poor against the unemployed poor, and that is despicable.
     
  19. ArcherNX01

    ArcherNX01 Commander Premium Member

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    While I sympathise with your situation (and you're hardly the sort of person I'm having a dig at) I make no apologies for my views. And thanks for answering my original question.
     
  20. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Am I really not the sort of person you're having a dig at? I mean, I was unemployed for several years, and for some time I didn't even apply for any jobs.
     
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