But we can read about it.
Is Generations REALLY That Bad???
- Thread starter AdmiralScreed
- Start date
But we can read about it.
Agreed. There's a long list. But basically, the Nexus is ill defined, inconsistent and makes no sense at all. Being central to the plot of the movie, the movie suffers greatly because of it.
But that's the real insidious thing about the Nexus: How do you know Picard still isn't in it?
I wrote this theory once before, but what the hell: Picard never left the Nexus. Nexus-Guinan and Kirk were all figments of the Nexus's fantasy, concluding with Picard thinking he left the Nexus with Kirk and stopping Soran, when in reality, Soran succeeded, Veridian III and the Enterprise crew were blown up, and Kirk originally did die on the Enterprise-B and was never in the Nexus to begin with. Therefore, seasons 3-7 of DS9, all of Voyager and the rest of the TNG movies are simply figments of Picard's imagination.
The Nexus knew that Picard wasn't buying the whole "replacement family" thing with a new wife, kids, and Rene stlll alive, so it compensated to give him a more realistic fantasy to fool him.
The best part of GEN was the music; it was excellent. But the plot has so many holes that with each time I watch it, I like it less. Modern Trek with its large, ensemble casts belongs on TV as a weekly series or as regular miniseries. See the link below for not only a review of GEN and why it's bad but what changes would've improved it greatly:
http://www.confusedmatthew.com/Star-Trek-Generations.php
http://www.confusedmatthew.com/Star-Trek-Generations.php
But that's the real insidious thing about the Nexus: How do you know Picard still isn't in it?
I wrote this theory once before, but what the hell: Picard never left the Nexus. Nexus-Guinan and Kirk were all figments of the Nexus's fantasy, concluding with Picard thinking he left the Nexus with Kirk and stopping Soran, when in reality, Soran succeeded, Veridian III and the Enterprise crew were blown up, and Kirk originally did die on the Enterprise-B and was never in the Nexus to begin with. Therefore, seasons 3-7 of DS9, all of Voyager and the rest of the TNG movies are simply figments of Picard's imagination.
The Nexus knew that Picard wasn't buying the whole "replacement family" thing with a new wife, kids, and Rene stlll alive, so it compensated to give him a more realistic fantasy to fool him.
Funnily enough after I posted that, I was thinking along the same lines (perhaps not so elequently though!) . Definitely puts a new spin on the TNG movies...
That was a heartbreaker for me, I'm not an admirer of the Enterprise E.
But that's the real insidious thing about the Nexus: How do you know Picard still isn't in it?
I wrote this theory once before, but what the hell: Picard never left the Nexus. Nexus-Guinan and Kirk were all figments of the Nexus's fantasy, concluding with Picard thinking he left the Nexus with Kirk and stopping Soran, when in reality, Soran succeeded, Veridian III and the Enterprise crew were blown up, and Kirk originally did die on the Enterprise-B and was never in the Nexus to begin with. Therefore, seasons 3-7 of DS9, all of Voyager and the rest of the TNG movies are simply figments of Picard's imagination.
The Nexus knew that Picard wasn't buying the whole "replacement family" thing with a new wife, kids, and Rene stlll alive, so it compensated to give him a more realistic fantasy to fool him.
It's like the Matrix, the "perfect" fantasy wasn't enough, you needed some misery to really sell it to those in the fantasy.
Just another idiot with too much time on his hands that thinks he could be another Hollywood writer....
I hated it. I hated hated hated it. Its so bad.
I thought of Picard-still-in-the-Nexus idea before after reafing it on here or somewhere else. But to work, wouldn't Picard have to actually be present at the events of Ds9 and VOY even if it was a concocted fantasy?
But he is present. He may not physically be on DS9 or the Voyager, but other people who were on the Enterprise-D when it was destroyed pop up, so that's undeniable proof that by extension, these shows are all part of Picard's fantasy.
Isn't the Nexus way more insidious than you thought it was?
In answering the question in this thread, it struck me as odd that Kirk's first fantasy was Antonia. Now, I'm sure there are "real world" reasons for why it was written as it was, but in thinking about it, why didn't Kirk go back and try to work things out with Carol Marcus and get to spend time with David from infancy onward. Was not leaving Antonia to return to Starfleet a bigger regret than not being in David's life until the end?
Again, I'm sure there's a "real world" answer, perhaps that by doing so, they would have been expecting movie goers to know too much back-story on Kirk. Of those people who came to the movie as fans of TNG, I guess it's logical to assume that there were some who had not seen much of the original crew and it's possible some may have not seen Star Trek II and/or III. Using Carol and David might have taken too much explanation, but would it have taken more than introducing the never mentioned before or since Antonia?
Memory Beta says that the novel does show Kirk seeing images of David and Carol. Can anyone elaborate or speak to why it wasn't included in the movie?
Again, I'm sure there's a "real world" answer, perhaps that by doing so, they would have been expecting movie goers to know too much back-story on Kirk. Of those people who came to the movie as fans of TNG, I guess it's logical to assume that there were some who had not seen much of the original crew and it's possible some may have not seen Star Trek II and/or III. Using Carol and David might have taken too much explanation, but would it have taken more than introducing the never mentioned before or since Antonia?
Memory Beta says that the novel does show Kirk seeing images of David and Carol. Can anyone elaborate or speak to why it wasn't included in the movie?
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but with my theory, Kirk is just a figment of Picard's Nexus-created fantasy, and therefore he's there to sway Picard into giving him a believable fantasy, i.e. that "Kirk's" initial fantasy of retiring with Antonia was wrong (just like Picard's initial family fantasy was wrong for him), and swaying him into believing that instead, he needs to be on the bridge of his ship, just like "Kirk" tells him. And voila, Picard and Kirk "leave" the Nexus, defeat Soran, and he gets a brand-spanking new Enterprise out of the deal, with the same exact crew he had before! How's that for a fantasy?
Is it written that the Nexus experience must be focused on a regret?
It is kind of interesting that Kirk’s Nexus experience revisits happy moments from the life he had lived, while Picard’s Nexus experience is a fantasy about a life he had not lived.
Too much uniform changing for my liking !!! Riker in his TNG uniform Riker is his DS9 uniform swop change swop change did my nut in !!!
I don't think it's that bad at all. Of the eleven Star Trek movies, there is not one that I find impossible to watchable -- including Nemesis. I could have been a lot better, but I like what we got. I sometimes think that "All Good Things..." would have been an AMAZING big screen adventure for the TNG cast, though.
I always looked at Generations as something of a transitional movie. Go with me for a second here!
TOS crew -> TNG crew
TNG TV uniforms -> DS9/Voyager uniforms
Enterprise-D -> Enterprise-E (even though the E doesn't appear until the next film, but still!)
I always looked at Generations as something of a transitional movie. Go with me for a second here!
TOS crew -> TNG crew
TNG TV uniforms -> DS9/Voyager uniforms
Enterprise-D -> Enterprise-E (even though the E doesn't appear until the next film, but still!)
Saw Star Trek:Generations in theaters in 1994 and liked it enough at the time. I even accepted the death of Kirk. This was before being oversaturated by internet hate for the film and it's storyline. Perhaps your post is timely and you can lead us from the darkness.
The film itself isn't that bad but I find it impossible to get past the death of Kirk. It was so badly handled and he was absolutely wasted in the movie. They really should have just left him almost literally riding off into the sunset in Star Trek VI, far far more satisfying an ending.
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