On that we are in agreement/ This is one reason why Nimoy and Kelley declined to take part in it. Both felt they said appropriate enough goodbyes in STVI.
Is Generations REALLY That Bad???
- Thread starter AdmiralScreed
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Speaking of uniforms, the latest STAR TREK auction catalog has a prototype of the unused uniform design. Check out the pdf here.
I think he's right - it IS a plot killer. IN FACT it would have been a WAY better story if the Enterprise was hijacked by Soren to fly into the energy ribbon.
*Sybock needs a Starship, a ship of the line, not the Millennium Falcon or a transport.
*I don't know what you're talking about as far as Khan and the code. He was looking for a manual override, not how to re-enter the prefix code himself. Or are you talking about 'hours would seem like days?'. Played as it is in the movie, with just Spock's voice, it just sounds like Spock babbling.
*It probably hadn't been charted in a long time. The orbit shifted, they weren't paying that much attention to the JUNGLE planets, they were looking for the dead planets.
*Because it's a probe - a piece of hardware, not a sentient being or a self-aware system. The Planet Killer was an advanced weapon, but not advanced enough to know the war it was meant for was over and it was in the wrong place. My computer is advanced, but it isn't going to tell me I accidentally left it somewhere.
*Haven't the Borg always been able to transport as they liked?
Or why not just send a sub space message to the borg of that time before their destruction?
ON TOPIC
I try to ignore plot holes. Hoever, I did enjoy Generations more then I enjoyed Insurrection. In fact, I would say I hate Insurrection out of all the TNG movies. It just felt like a lost episode from TNG series.
Off the top of my head...
I tell myself that deaths can be unceremonious and retain a certain gritty dignity, e.g. Derek Reese's death in Terminator: SCC.
But to accomplish this, the death needs to make sense, e.g. Reese is in a house quite reasonably looking for someone, and BAM. He was a soldier, he knew of the risks, and he died doing his duty. It's in character.
Kirk's death makes no sense, dramatically: he wasn't really needed there, to help Picard. And he had a heroic aura to him - a tone of grandeur, despite his status as a dutiful officer. His death didn't fit. It was purposeless, drab, dull.
No doubt real deaths are like this, but this is why we have drama: to give them a certain appropriate poignancy. Generations didn't do this for Kirk. He seemed like a plot device, and a marketing ploy.
I tell myself that deaths can be unceremonious and retain a certain gritty dignity, e.g. Derek Reese's death in Terminator: SCC.
But to accomplish this, the death needs to make sense, e.g. Reese is in a house quite reasonably looking for someone, and BAM. He was a soldier, he knew of the risks, and he died doing his duty. It's in character.
Kirk's death makes no sense, dramatically: he wasn't really needed there, to help Picard. And he had a heroic aura to him - a tone of grandeur, despite his status as a dutiful officer. His death didn't fit. It was purposeless, drab, dull.
No doubt real deaths are like this, but this is why we have drama: to give them a certain appropriate poignancy. Generations didn't do this for Kirk. He seemed like a plot device, and a marketing ploy.
Interesting read. I was unaware TOS had fans who hated TNG. Intersting, I am a TOS fan and I loved TNG. As did everyone else I knew. They also loved DS9 & Voyager. A few disliked Enterprise. I liked it too.
I had the benefit of seeing all the films at the cinema. I thought the first film was a bit slow. Especially compared with seeing Star wars when first released. I enjoyed Generations. I certainly felt no desire to award it marks. What a total waste of my energy.
Soran did evil. Soran did not think clearly. History is full of such characters. Soran is a believable character to me.
Kirk's death saddened me. I loved Kirk. I still feel it was unnecessary. But then so was world war one. Nevertheless it happened. Yes releasing Tales from topographic oceans was also a tradgedy. Neverless.....
I watched Generations recently. I enjoyed it. It's just a movie.
I had the benefit of seeing all the films at the cinema. I thought the first film was a bit slow. Especially compared with seeing Star wars when first released. I enjoyed Generations. I certainly felt no desire to award it marks. What a total waste of my energy.
Soran did evil. Soran did not think clearly. History is full of such characters. Soran is a believable character to me.
Kirk's death saddened me. I loved Kirk. I still feel it was unnecessary. But then so was world war one. Nevertheless it happened. Yes releasing Tales from topographic oceans was also a tradgedy. Neverless.....
I watched Generations recently. I enjoyed it. It's just a movie.
Not just a lost episode... it combined 3 of them together! The sign of LaForge, Radioactive Man Jaden, and... the one where they hide an observation building.
Ian Keldon
Fleet Captain
Kirk died as he wanted to die...making a difference. Far better than "fading away" in retirement or being lost in the limbo of the Nexus.
History revealed that ANY ship that came across the Energy Ribbon (or Nexus as we later learned it was called), was either severely damaged or destroyed. Scotty stated that "the Elurians were "phasing" in and out of our space time continuum. Who is to say that any of those had made it into the Nexus or if they were blown up along with the ship??
The Shockwave of Ceti Alpha V shifted the orbits of some of the planets in the system. What if Alpha VI was in the same position that V should have been in at that moment?
As we ALL know is Khan is OVERLY intelligent and probably overlooked the threat about the Prefix code.
I agree with the Probe being non-sentient
.
Because if it did they wouldn't have the Transwarp capability to make it all the way to Earth, as stated in "ENTERPRISE"- the signal the Borg made to the Delta Quadrant, T'Pol said that anything coming from there would take roughly 400 years to make it according to her supposition.
The Borg were able to beam on board undetected because the shields were down and sensors were offline...
Maybe in your eyes....
Realistic steganography requires a large volume of information in which to hide the message. In this case, one would have a substantial conversation in which one casually drops the phrase "hours would seem like days." That would kill the pacing of the film, so we must assume that what appears on screen is an edited version of the conversation.
Good enough?
I meant that to Khan, it would just sound like Spock babbling, as aliens are want to do. He wasn't paying attention to the nuances, and probably couldn't, pay attention to the nuances. He just wanted to hear what was working and what wasn't, and stopped listening when he heard they were days away from getting back into shape.
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er, how does what Spock says sound like "babbling?" He may be half- Vulcan but he was speaking plain English. And remember that we keep hearing what a "genius" Khan is. I'm not buying that he doesn't pick up on this.
I actually like captrek's explanation better, though of course it relies on something not in the film, but if it was made clear that the code was better hidden than the way it came across that would work.
At any rate, I was making a point, not criticizing TWOK. All the Trek movies have plot holes. Generations may have more than usual, but I don't even think that much is true. And if you like the film, they're not going to be a deal-breaker.
As other people have said, the plot holes in Generations are total plot killers. So yeah, its really that bad.
I am too dim to notice plot holes until they are pointed out. And then I am too smitten to care. Really, I'm like Picard's Nexus wife.
Cider?
Cider?
But the Nexus wife has adorable children! And more clothing.
I remember thinking the first time I saw it "Picard's dream life is the dream of a man who has only read about such things."
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