Is Generations REALLY That Bad???

[Jeyl]

I also agree with you on the reason Picard was crying to Deanna, upon telling her about the death of Robert and Rene'. I feel a certain feeling of attachment in this subject.

Does that mean when you have the opportunity to go back in time and prevent the death of your family that you wouldn't do it like Picard did? It's not too far back in time to screw anything up except for Worf's promotion (god forbid that indecent showing of unprofessionalism still plays out like it did). And you would have other chances to make things right like save the station from the Romulan attack and arrest Soran before he starts his star destroying scheme.

 

[Captrek]

That scene actually touches on a pet peeve of mine with the whole “Data’s quest to be human” arc. It equates feeling the way we feel with expressing feelings the way we express them. Why should an android need tears to express joy and relief at finding his pet safe?

So what was he supposed to do? Jump up and down with joy or emphatically pump his fist in the air and yell..."YES!!"?
That happened earlier in the movie. He had Spot for exactly how many years?. Like I said you have got to be a pet owner to just understand exactly what Data was feeling at the time.

I am a pet owner. I understand why Data feels the way he feels in that scene. I’m not griping about that scene in particular, but with the whole idea that Data has to express emotions the same way we do in order to be able to experience them at all.

Why would an android have tear ducts in the first place? Did they come with the emotion chip?

Here’s what I think would have been a cool Data character arc:

Data installs the emotion chip in early S7. It quickly enables him to feel emotions, but he doesn’t instinctively know how to associate emotional states with words and expressions. He doesn’t know how to express what he’s feeling, or even which feelings ought to be expressed, and can’t accurately interpret other people’s expressions of emotions. Over the course of the season he learns which emotional states go with which expressions and starts to act more human, and maybe has Geordi install some tear ducts.

GEN hints at some of this stuff, but doesn’t make much of a character arc of it. It has limited screen time available for the emotion chip storyline, mostly focuses on Data being overwhelmed by the new emotions, and unfortunately fails to do anything really new or interesting even with that theme.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

It is funny to read how people nitpick the film, leaving out the most important aspects.

It is not main stream! It deals with a serious theme of loss and change and it deals with it so beautifully... There are no stupid oneliners, no pathetic speeches. It flows naturally.

I just recently watched it again, and it was awesome.

The only TREK movie which feels like a TREK "movie" IMHO.

Filled with great scenes. Alone the scene in Picard's quarters is powerful. The SFX and cinematography are awesome. Never before (and sadly never again) did the Enterprise feel so huge.

I love it.

 

[Eno]

have bigger issues with the Stellar Cartography scene than just two guys looking at a screen. This scene should have involved all the senior officers, not just Data and Picard. They're trying to figure out how a mad man is destroying stars, and they're leaving everyone out of it. There is no reason why this scene couldn't have happened on the bridge or in the briefing room.

I do not think it is necessary to gather all the staff. Often problem solving is easier with fewer personalities involved.

As for the scene being more bankable, or perhaps marketable, I do not recall that scene being pushed in promotion. I may be wrong. Anyway, what is wrong with seeking success? Should investers lose money? Should careers suffer due to failure for failures sake? Can someone explain the higher virtue failure possess over that within success?

I am very curious to know.

 

[Jeyl]

I do not think it is necessary to gather all the staff. Often problem solving is easier with fewer personalities involved.

Well, with that frame of logic, why do they even bother having the other crew members at all? I seem to remember a lot of situations from the TV series where the entire crew would gather in the briefing room to discuss matters when the situation was of the utmost importance. They did that with the Borg, they did that in "Cause and Effect", they did it a LOT.

And really, you're going to use the "get things done quicker" excuse? Half the scene was stopped dead in it's tracks because of Data's forced issues with his emotion chip that goes no where and does nothing. I think if other senior officers were involved, things would have gotten done a lot quicker.

Anyway, what is wrong with seeking success? Should investers lose money? Should careers suffer due to failure for failures sake? Can someone explain the higher virtue failure possess over that within success?

Seeking success and being successful are two different things. Generations was a mess because the writers and producers tried too many things in trying to bring in what they thought was the most successful parts of Star Trek. And the film wasn't really well received on release either. It was only due to it's success at the box office that First Contact ever came into being.

And if you want the best example of the producers seeking success above all else, look at Star Trek Nemesis. The film is nothing but a Picard and Data story with everyone else standing in as glorified cameos. It retconned many established elements in order to simplify the story for non-Star Trek viewers, and ignored very important character defining stories established in the main series. Picard never had hair? He HAD hair! Picard's heart is the same as Shinzon's heart? Picard LOST his real heart in a fight!

And how did Nemesis fair?..... yeah. If Nemesis succeeded where Shatner's "The Final Frontier" failed in killing Star Trek, you might want to rethink your idea on seeking success.

 

[Jeyl]

There are no stupid oneliners,

Data:
- Open sesame!
- Mr. Tricorder!
- *raised fist* Yes!
- Oh, sh**

no pathetic speeches.

Picard: I believe that time is a companion who goes with us on a journey to remind us to cherish the moments we have, because they'll never come again.

Do we bother telling Picard that his so-called "Time" thing is the very REASON those moments never come again?

 

[barnaclelapse]

I don't think it's a masterpiece by any means, but I've never thought it to be "bad." Disappointing would probably the harshest term that comes to mind, but there's still a lot about it that I enjoy.

 

[Anticitizen]

That scene actually touches on a pet peeve of mine with the whole “Data’s quest to be human” arc. It equates feeling the way we feel with expressing feelings the way we express them. Why should an android need tears to express joy and relief at finding his pet safe?

I think the whole idea of the 'emotion chip' was a bad one that nullified Data's character development. He spent his lifetime trying to learn how to become more human, and in the end, it boils down to a hardware upgrade? That's not actual development. The thematic element throughout the series was that one day he would grow to be greater than the sum of his parts, rise above his programming, etc. Instead he simply inserts a pre-programmed chip. Killed the character, IMO.

I'd like to add the very existence of the Nexus to the litany of complaints about the film. A magical energy ribbon in space that takes you to Heaven is one of the sillier ideas in Trek.

 

[sonak]

That scene actually touches on a pet peeve of mine with the whole “Data’s quest to be human” arc. It equates feeling the way we feel with expressing feelings the way we express them. Why should an android need tears to express joy and relief at finding his pet safe?

I think the whole idea of the 'emotion chip' was a bad one that nullified Data's character development. He spent his lifetime trying to learn how to become more human, and in the end, it boils down to a hardware upgrade? That's not actual development. The thematic element throughout the series was that one day he would grow to be greater than the sum of his parts, rise above his programming, etc. Instead he simply inserts a pre-programmed chip. Killed the character, IMO.

I'd like to add the very existence of the Nexus to the litany of complaints about the film. A magical energy ribbon in space that takes you to Heaven is one of the sillier ideas in Trek.

your first point is a good one. However, as to the second, why is it any sillier than the God Apollo living on a planet somewhere? Or disembodied "prophets" residing in a wormhole? Or demons that oppose those prophets being locked away in fire caves or trapped in a book or something?

Star Trek has always had fantasy elements. I don't get the issue some fans have with the Nexus.

 

[Anticitizen]

Because the prophets/Apollo/etc were all just advanced alien life forms.

The Nexus could have been acceptable with some backstory - hint that it was created by an ancient species or something. I just didn't like the way that we're expected to buy the idea, at face value as it was presented, that a magic energy ribbon in space can make all your fantasies come true. I was like, 'Oooh-kay, so THAT exists...'

It's just really out of left field. And nobody in Starfleet bothered to investigate it after the Enterprise-B incident? Not even Guinan warning people about it?

 

[SchwEnt]

Just to pile on the Nexus gripes...

What's the deal with it, anyway? Evidently it is a space phenomenon, traveling amongst the stars. So it must travel at warp velocities.

During the Enterprise-B launch, it seemed to be in our neck of the woods, around the SolSystem out by Pluto. Yet the entire rescue attempt didn't appear to be happening at warp speeds.

By the 24th century, the Nexus is out by Veridian III. How far is that? How fast did it travel?

And then when Soran is guiding it towards his rocky platform, the Nexus moves lazily across the sky at tens of miles per hour. Does it slow down when passing by planets and other things in space? Physically, how does the Nexus move? What propulsion, what speeds, what control?
Must it really all be plot magic and nonsensical?

Okay that's enough outta me.

 

[BruntFCA]

I always I liked the movie but that might just be kid goggles sense it was the first star trek anything I remember seeing.

 

[F. King Daniel]

We know from episodes like "Magicks of Megas Tu", "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "Remember Me" that universes of pure thought and imagination exist and can even be created with warp fields (?!?), so the Nexus being some gateway to these magical lands isn't that big of a deal for me.

But, I see Trek as science fantasy, not science fiction.

 

[TenLubak]

Star Trek 7 is my favorite~ Data's a goof and thier uniforms dont match. But at least this one's fun and feels like a NEXT GEN movie!

 

[Mr_Homn]

We know from episodes like "Magicks of Megas Tu", "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "Remember Me" that universes of pure thought and imagination exist and can even be created with warp fields (?!?), so the Nexus being some gateway to these magical lands isn't that big of a deal for me.

But, I see Trek as science fantasy, not science fiction.

Fictional Science Fiction

 

[Jeyl]

We know from episodes like "Magicks of Megas Tu", "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "Remember Me" that universes of pure thought and imagination exist and can even be created with warp fields (?!?), so the Nexus being some gateway to these magical lands isn't that big of a deal for me.

But, I see Trek as science fantasy, not science fiction.

Fictional Science Fiction

Thank you SFDebris.