Is Generations REALLY That Bad???
- Thread starter AdmiralScreed
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Seems to me in the TV Series the 1701-D was prone to coolant leaks from Warp Core "mishaps"....why does Generations get such a bad rep?
Although you would imagine that a crew so familiar with remodulating the shield frequencies after several encounters with the Borg would have been able to take some remedial action - if Star Trek fans watching the film immediately thought 'remodulate the shields' then you'd think it would have occurred to someone on the ship.
Come to think of it you'd think that at that stage Starfleet shields would automatically be remodulating themselves every few seconds after so many encounters with the Borg.
Alas, twas not to be...
Come to think of it you'd think that at that stage Starfleet shields would automatically be remodulating themselves every few seconds after so many encounters with the Borg.
Alas, twas not to be...
that shouldn't have been an issue-they should have just had the Klingons fire a barrage of weapons as soon as they discovered the frequency, then had the Ent-D rotate frequencies, but have it be too late because of the damage of the initial barrage.
Then you don't have the issue and it still works.
I blame Riker. He let the ship get taken over by Ferengi a few years earlier when unleashing the weapons would have prevented it, then the same thing with that bird-of-prey that results in crash-landing of the Federation flagship and a whole mess of landscaping work required on an alien world.
The man is a menace.
The man is a menace.
Going on past form take a warp nacelle off on the spacedock wall during the launch ceremony.
Seems to me in the TV Series the 1701-D was prone to coolant leaks from Warp Core "mishaps"....why does Generations get such a bad rep?
That was something I liked. It was the same resultant damage from battle with the same type of ship that destroyed the Enterprise-D in both "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "Generations". Geordi's lines and actions in both are almost identical, too (he opens and checks behind the same panel in both before informing the bridge that it's a lost cause)
Yeah I admit it was cool finally seeing the end result of one of those "coolant leaks" Geordi is constantly going on about (and I'll even admit that the actual Ent-D vs Bird of Prey battle was pretty damn exciting).
I just hated the incredibly cheesy way the movie GOT to that point.
I mean, really, if you're going to have the Klingons take down the Ent-D, at least let it be someone cool like Gowron-- not the lame and annoying Duras sisters.
That Shatner scenes were good (except when they dropped him on his head)
The 2 minute scene with Picard and his kids at Christmas was good until that windbag Whoopie showed up and ruined it
the rest was complete garbage.
Basically 15 minutes of the film were ok the rest was sewage
The 2 minute scene with Picard and his kids at Christmas was good until that windbag Whoopie showed up and ruined it
the rest was complete garbage.
Basically 15 minutes of the film were ok the rest was sewage
I don't think Generations is bad, but I do have a question: How the heck did Harriman get command of the flagship? Really?!!! I get that having Captain Kirk watching your first outing on the brand spanking new Enterprise has to be intimidating, but it just looks like the man has no confidence whatsoever.
Yeah, he looked like he was about to piss his pants from fear.
In addition, how poorly run is the Federation if the Enterprise is always the 'only ship in range' when it comes to emergencies? Especially when they weren't really in deep space here. From what I recall they were only supposed to take a short jaunt around the solar system, and somehow they end up being the closet ship. What about all the other ships around Earth?
I just re-watched it again last night. I have the ability to enjoy something the first time I see it and then, I begin to pick it apart. I remember being satisfied as a 15 year old in the theater, but the more times I rewatched it over the years, the less satisfied I became. Yesterday was the first time in a long time I watched the whole movie and while some of my gripes were there, I didn't let them ruin my enjoyment of the movie.
However, here are things that are sticking out in my mind:
Again, yes, there are plot holes in the other movies, but for some reason, aside from the time-travel aspect of First Contact, none really drag me out of the movies as the ones in Generations. Still, like the TOS's first foray onto the screen, I can still enjoy the movie, despite its flaws. It has a charm and tone of its own, while the other TNG movies are in some aspects darker (both in terms of plot and in terms of cinematography), Generations is brighter, more of a character driven plot, and a touch more cerebral.
I do have to say, what impressed me most, was Chekov. Scotty's main role in the opening seems to give Kirk someone to play off of. Except for his later use as an engineer, Scotty's lines seem to be tailored more for McCoy. Chekov, however, is a bit more professional. I love the scene when they find out the medical team isn't due to arrive until Tuesday. Chekov's drafting of the two newsmen as nurses is a definite highlight for me. Sad, though, that one of Chekov's finest moments, is in a cameo!
However, here are things that are sticking out in my mind:
- The death of Picard's nephew and uncle felt flat. We'd met them once, years before, and they were not something that was mentioned often. What's bothered me for the longest is Picard's selfish reaction that Rene's existence took the pressure off of him to carry on the family line. While his age and position due hinder his ability, he could still continue to carry on the family line. The novels did address this point of mine, but in the movie, and this could be due to grief, it doesn't even seem a possibility.
- The Nexus. Earlier in the thread it seemed that some argued that the plot holes are not larger than in subsequent Trek movies. That's fine, but for me, this is a big one. Maybe not for others, but the Nexus never fully made sense to me. First, if the energy ribbon destroys ships, it can't be that good for a planet. Maybe the planet can offer more protection than a ship, but wasn't Soran taking a risk that he could enter the Nexus if he was on a planet, rather than a ship.
- It's a plot contrivance that Picard can dismiss the Nexus' effects and that Kirk can also. This one is easily forgiven, though.
- The time travel aspect. Picard decided that the climax of the movie would be the best time to confront Soran. Not while Soran was on the Enterprise or even the planet before Soran arrived and had time to construct his forcefields. In the latter case, I guess you can argue that perhaps Soran had the area scouted and prepared before arriving and that if Picard returned to the Enterprise while it was at the Amargosa Observatory, there would be two Picards, but if so, then why aren't there two Picards on Veridian III? And was the Enterprise saucer section close enough to have the crew brought into the Nexus?
Again, yes, there are plot holes in the other movies, but for some reason, aside from the time-travel aspect of First Contact, none really drag me out of the movies as the ones in Generations. Still, like the TOS's first foray onto the screen, I can still enjoy the movie, despite its flaws. It has a charm and tone of its own, while the other TNG movies are in some aspects darker (both in terms of plot and in terms of cinematography), Generations is brighter, more of a character driven plot, and a touch more cerebral.
I do have to say, what impressed me most, was Chekov. Scotty's main role in the opening seems to give Kirk someone to play off of. Except for his later use as an engineer, Scotty's lines seem to be tailored more for McCoy. Chekov, however, is a bit more professional. I love the scene when they find out the medical team isn't due to arrive until Tuesday. Chekov's drafting of the two newsmen as nurses is a definite highlight for me. Sad, though, that one of Chekov's finest moments, is in a cameo!
why is it a deal-breaker? The ships in the beginning were destroyed by the Nexus. Just think of it as Soran being afraid that the Nexus would destroy the ship before he could enter it safely.
How did Soran originally get into the Nexus? He got there in a ship.
How did Guinan get into the Nexus? She got there in a ship.
How did Kirk get into the Nexus? He got there in a ship.
Now the original quote (I believe stated by Data), was that all ships that have gotten close to the Nexus have either been destroyed or severely damaged. I believe it was Picard who assumed Soran couldn't use a ship, and Soran backs that assumption up with his base on Veridian III. So the movie implies if not outright states that YOU CAN'T GET INTO THE NEXUS BY SHIP.
But...that's how three people got there.
Sonak does have a point that maybe Soran was being "safer than sorry" by using a planet instead of a ship, but that doesn't change the fact that the film beat us over the head about the non-use of ships when it's quite clear that one can enter the Nexus by ship just fine, even under dangerous conditions.
How did Soran originally get into the Nexus? He got there in a ship.
How did Guinan get into the Nexus? She got there in a ship.
How did Kirk get into the Nexus? He got there in a ship.
Now the original quote (I believe stated by Data), was that all ships that have gotten close to the Nexus have either been destroyed or severely damaged. I believe it was Picard who assumed Soran couldn't use a ship, and Soran backs that assumption up with his base on Veridian III. So the movie implies if not outright states that YOU CAN'T GET INTO THE NEXUS BY SHIP.
But...that's how three people got there.
Sonak does have a point that maybe Soran was being "safer than sorry" by using a planet instead of a ship, but that doesn't change the fact that the film beat us over the head about the non-use of ships when it's quite clear that one can enter the Nexus by ship just fine, even under dangerous conditions.
yes, I'm aware it's a plot flaw, and it is kind of silly that they blatantly show Guinan, Soran, and Kirk getting there on a ship and then pretending later that Soran can't do that again.
However, I think you can rationalize it without too much difficulty as Soran just being, as you wrote, "being safer than sorry" by making sure he'd be able to get into the Nexus BEFORE the ship was destroyed.
It's an easy fix, just have Soran say something like "I considered using a ship, but couldn't take the risk it wouldn't last until I made it in."
I just don't see it as being a deal-breaking plot hole.
I think they'd also need a line about how the planet provides more protection. Granted, it would stand to reason, but the ribbon looked nasty enough to cause damage to anything that went through it. Even something like taking a page from the Terminator and saying the ribbon only has a destructive effect on non-organic material. The planet would have enough organic material to protect him, as long as he was not in a non-organic structure.
This would also answer why the Enterprise crew didn't go into the Nexus, since they were surrounded by the non-organic saucer section. It also explains why Soren was out in the open, instead of in a more secure facility (well that and I'm guessing he didn't have long to create a facility).
As for your question as to why it's a deal breaker, honestly, that's something that differs from person to person. I've nitpicked movies that others don't see those flaws in, while there are films that people have serious issues with that don't bother me. No movie is going to be for everyone and this one has a few things that trip my button. More than that, I can't explain.
This would also answer why the Enterprise crew didn't go into the Nexus, since they were surrounded by the non-organic saucer section. It also explains why Soren was out in the open, instead of in a more secure facility (well that and I'm guessing he didn't have long to create a facility).
As for your question as to why it's a deal breaker, honestly, that's something that differs from person to person. I've nitpicked movies that others don't see those flaws in, while there are films that people have serious issues with that don't bother me. No movie is going to be for everyone and this one has a few things that trip my button. More than that, I can't explain.
I just can't passed the fact that Picard/Kirk could just 'will' themselves out of it. How convenient.
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