Is Generations REALLY That Bad???

[MacLeod]

Soran had 70 years to figure out how to recreate flying into the nexus, but decided blowing up whole stars and comitting genocide was the easiest. That's not a plot-hole that's a plot killer. The audience has SEEN how he got there the first time! They know how to get in --but Soran doesn't?

-Why can't Sybok buy a ship to go to the Great Barrier?
-how does the USS Reliant confuse two different planets? Why can't Khan figure out such a dumb code?
-how can an advanced probe not figure out it's transmissions are harmful?
Why doesn't the borg cube time travel first, when it's back in the DQ, THEN travel to Earth? How can they sudden;y beam onto Federation ships without being detected?

see what I mean? Are those "plot killers?"

1.>I got the impression that Nimbus III was a wasteland of planet all but forgotten and ships didn't visit it and there where no ships there, after all surely they had already been used to get off the planet.

2.>Agreed though depending on the plane of the system and the way the reliant approached it they could have thought the other planet was behind the sun as the reliant appraoched and the sun was masking the location of the planet (a stretch I knoother). As for the second part Kahn was so obsessed with beating Kirk he had tunnel vision focusing so much on that one goal that he missed it. How many of us when we focus on one thing miss other things.

3.>If you are talking about the probe in ST IV, remember they where only harmful to humanoids, it almost seemed to be some terraforming on Earth to prepare it for new whale life. as Spock said in the film "Only arrogance would assume the transmission was meant for us"

4.>Agree on the first part, as for the second part passage through the Borg temporal fissure causes the sensors to go down. A line in the film addressed this "They must have beamed over when our sensors where down"

 

[Xavier_Storma]

I love GENERATIONS. In fact, over the years it has become my favorite TREK film.

It's so unconventional and so against mainstream. It's epic in scope and never before and never after that again, did the cinematography look that awesome.
I love the score, I wish they could release a full version of it with unreleased cues like the holodeck scene, when Picard reads the message from Earth, the approach to Amargosa.

I like how they ended Kirk's legacy. It was not an overblown heroic death, and he did not die like people use to die in American movies: Winner pose heroes. In fact his last words mirror those of so many people I have seen dying. It made him human. I just with Picard had a similar death on screen.

The film's main theme: To let go, to cope with loss and change was well executed.

I loved the changes in design they made to the big E-D. Wish we had more time to explore the upgraded Enterprise a little more.

The stellar cartography scene is one of the best in all-Trek.

The film itself has proven to be timeless (unlike the earlier TOS films). It still looks fresh and new, as if it was filmed just last year.

I love it.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

...

Whaaaaaaaa?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What are you "whaaaa"ing about? Thread subject? Post above yours?

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Wanted to fix my post to include a quote of the above reply but couldn't, thus I couldn't fix my post, so... Yeah, the post above mine.

 

[Mytran]

So, Xavier_Storma like Generations,contrary to mainstream opinions? IDIC, dude.

 

[Gagarin]

stellar cartography a great scene?
it just borrows from "WarGames" in that it's just two people staring at a computer screen and talking about what's on the screen.

Spock's death? Now THAT's a scene.

Looks fresh? Holds up well? ...well, it's darker, and had a bigger budget, and was done on newer film stock and compositors, but in the end they still ended up reusing a shot from TUC and a shot from...the TNG TV show. And the pajama suits never held up.

IDIC is fine, I'm just not sure they know what a good movie is.

 

[Mytran]

Yeah, IDIC... and a cogent argument greater than "waaaaaah" is also nice, too! Cheers Gagarin!
FWIW, Generations is not in my list of top Trek films - but there are also worse ones to choose from. Generations I can at least bear to sit through!!!

 

[Jeyl]

stellar cartography a great scene?
it just borrows from "WarGames" in that it's just two people staring at a computer screen and talking about what's on the screen.

I have bigger issues with the Stellar Cartography scene than just two guys looking at a screen. This scene should have involved all the senior officers, not just Data and Picard. They're trying to figure out how a mad man is destroying stars, and they're leaving everyone out of it. There is no reason why this scene couldn't have happened on the bridge or in the briefing room.

But we all know the real reason why it's there. It's because Picard and Data are the most bankable characters in the TNG movie franchise. Of course it would just be the two of them figuring out how to save the galaxy.

 

[Skywalker]

But we all know the real reason why it's there. It's because Picard and Data are the most bankable characters in the TNG movie franchise. Of course it would just be the two of them figuring out how to save the galaxy.

Yeah, but that's how the business works. Like it or not, Picard and Data were essentially the Kirk and Spock of TNG.

 

[Trimm]

But we all know the real reason why it's there. It's because Picard and Data are the most bankable characters in the TNG movie franchise. Of course it would just be the two of them figuring out how to save the galaxy.

Yeah, but that's how the business works. Like it or not, Picard and Data were essentially the Kirk and Spock of TNG.

And yet in a very real sense they weren't, thus creating many of the issues in the TNG movies.

 

[BriGuy]

A lot of Trekkies criticize Generations, and they lump it in with INS, NEM, and TFF as one of the worst films in the ST franchise. Personally, I think that GEN is a very under appreciated film. Here's what I think of it:

Pros: Wonderful cinematography, great visual effects and sets, a great story that explored time, mortality and making the most of every moment, terrific performances by the whole cast, including McDowell as the villain Soran, the Nexus was a fantastic concept brought to life in a wonderful way, and the soundtrack was great.

Cons: Soran was a little underdeveloped, the subplot with Data and his emotions chip was kind of annoying, Kirk's death was lame, and there were plenty of plot holes.

Do These Problems Matter? The plot holes didn't bother me at all because they were usually really minor things, and they didn't prevent me from suspending my disbelief. I was never a big Kirk fan so even though his death was poorly executed I wasn't too bothered by it (his death actually makes me laugh every time, it's so damn pathetic). Even though Soran was underdeveloped, McDowell gave a very fine performance which somewhat made up for this lack of development. Data's subplot bothered me more than anything else because it wasn't very funny, but at the end of the day it's a very small chunk of a large film, so I can live with it.

Overall, I think GEN is a very fine film, and I enjoy it every time. IMO, its pros outweigh its cons by a long shot.

Does anyone else agree?

It's only when you over analyze things that stuff like plotholes in movies come to light. I too remember enjoying the movie the first time I saw it, and can still enjoy it.

I think Data's emotion chip story was OK, but could've been done better. Imagine a moment where Data thinks of Tasha, and has an emotional breakdown and cries? Or, if not a memory and more immediate, is more emotionally moved by what happened to Geordi. Instead we see him cry at the end about his cat.

As for Kirk's death... OK with that too. At least in the official timeline he stays dead, unlike others. People die, so it should happen, eventually.

I think the biggest problem is in the premise that a cross-over, hand off movie from TOS to TNG was even needed.

 

[Captain Mike]

I think Data's emotion chip story was OK, but could've been done better. Imagine a moment where Data thinks of Tasha, and has an emotional breakdown and cries? Or, if not a memory and more immediate, is more emotionally moved by what happened to Geordi. Instead we see him cry at the end about his cat.

I have cats AND dogs as pets. You must have to own one to understand the "familial bond" one can develop if they care about them. My wife and I had a few cats that have passed on, along with a dog that was run over by a drunk. We cried as much as if it was a human child and even have the dogs ashes as of yet.
So I see NO problem with how Data cried after discovering the pet he had was still alive.

 

[MasuPu'a]

I think Data's emotion chip story was OK, but could've been done better. Imagine a moment where Data thinks of Tasha, and has an emotional breakdown and cries? Or, if not a memory and more immediate, is more emotionally moved by what happened to Geordi. Instead we see him cry at the end about his cat.

I have cats AND dogs as pets. You must have to own one to understand the "familial bond" one can develop if they care about them. My wife and I had a few cats that have passed on, along with a dog that was run over by a drunk. We cried as much as if it was a human child and even have the dogs ashes as of yet.
So I see NO problem with how Data cried after discovering the pet he had was still alive.

I agree. Data crying over his cat was probably one of the best moments in the movie. Throughout TNG we've seen Data struggle to learn what it means to be human and to try and emulate that within his own character. Seeing him cry over Spot was like the perfect ending to his character arc. Yes, some would say that crying for an animal is illogical, silly and stupid. It's also very human.

I say this as someone who doesn't care for Generations, though it's not the absolute worst of Trek, it's still far from the best. Still, seeing Spot alive at the end was one of the best scenes.

 

[Captrek]

That scene actually touches on a pet peeve of mine with the whole “Data’s quest to be human” arc. It equates feeling the way we feel with expressing feelings the way we express them. Why should an android need tears to express joy and relief at finding his pet safe?

 

[Captain Mike]

That scene actually touches on a pet peeve of mine with the whole “Data’s quest to be human” arc. It equates feeling the way we feel with expressing feelings the way we express them. Why should an android need tears to express joy and relief at finding his pet safe?

So what was he supposed to do? Jump up and down with joy or emphatically pump his fist in the air and yell..."YES!!"?
That happened earlier in the movie. He had Spot for exactly how many years?. Like I said you have got to be a pet owner to just understand exactly what Data was feeling at the time.

 

[CaptainMatt]

I agree with Captain Mike. I am a pet owner and have been in some manner all my life. My family has seldom been without a pet so I can totally relate to what Data was feeling in STVII.

 

[Methos]

another agreeing with Capt Mike here... i've got 2 cats, and i completely agree with Data's crying over Spot when he finds his beloved pet alive...

the manner is perfect... as a Starfleet officer, after the crash of the ship, he's obligated to search and rescue for crew members first, putting his own wants and desires second to the well-being of the crew... while searching with Deanna for injured or buried crew members, he finds Spot alive and unharmed, i'd be crying with joy in that situation as well...

M

 

[CaptainMatt]

Thanks for backing me and Captain Mike up. I think a lot of people just do not understand the emotions having a pet can bring out of them in times of stress.

I may not be as into Star Trek-Generations as I used to be, (from overexposure and I hate seeing Kirk die) but that scene I understand all to well. I also felt emotion when Picard found out his extended family on earth had died. Emotional stuff.

 

[Captain Mike]

^ Thanks to everyone who agrees with my assessment on the "Data crying scene".
I also agree with you on the reason Picard was crying to Deanna, upon telling her about the death of Robert and Rene'. I feel a certain feeling of attachment in this subject.
I too have no children of my own and my brother has had a girl and likely will not have anymore. Although I am still young enough at 45 to have children of my own the opportunity is slowly diminishing, has made me realize that my brother and myself are the end of our family line with our last name.
I see no problem at all with how Picard reacted at all.
I