Insurrection-Should Have Been A Dominion War Movie

[Kinggodzillak]

The film wouldn't have needed to be about the war, but elements of it could easily have been used to make a good movie. You wouldn't need to throw lashings of continuity at the screen, nor would any DS9 characters need to appear*. Just explain that they're at war, then have a shapeshifter on the loose and Jem'Hadar storming the Enterprise hacking up redshirts - a cross between The Adversary and The Ship, perhaps - it'd be easy enough for a casual moviegoer to understand. It probably wouldn't feel different enough from First Contact, but the Dominion wasn't really such a huge unfathomable concept that even for the dumbest audience couldn't have understood it.


* Except Weyoun, natch.

 

[Trekker4747]

Gotta agree with the OP, sorry. Casual moviegoers learned everything they needed about the Borg in the first 5 minutes of FC and that did just fine.

Ehh, there wasn't much to explain about the Borg, it could be explained easily enough in the montage or a couple lines of dialogue as we got. The Dominion war probably would have been a bit more complex to explain as far as the parties involved, the wormhole, the Gamma Quadrant, the Founders, the Jem'Heddar, the Vorta.

It strikes me as a lot to explain away in a few minutes.

 

[GemHaters]

* Except Weyoun

But, of course

 

[Kelthaz]

Gotta agree with the OP, sorry. Casual moviegoers learned everything they needed about the Borg in the first 5 minutes of FC and that did just fine.

Insurrection as it was presented did a lot of damage to the franchise. It under-performed and looked very cheap. It felt like a B movie (which most Trek films were let's be honest) but this one, esp after FC was so well received, really hurt.

It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire ...

It doesn't take that long to get an audience up to speed with the politics of a fictional universe. A simple line at the beginning of the film about a war with the Dominion is all you need. So yeah, I agree with Gem. A Dominion War movie would have been fantastic.

 

[RyuRoots]

Making the a TNG movie focused on Dominion War would've been bad on at least three levels:

1. The Dominion War was DS9's main focus, centering on it in a TNG movie would've impacted DS9's storyline.

2. Being a DS9 focus what was going on may not be knowledgeable to Trek fans familiar with TNG but not DS9.

3. The Dominion War certainly wouldn't be knowledgeable to even more casual fan or general audiences.

But, in short, the first point is the biggest one. The Dominion War was DS9's baby, no reason for TNG to do anything with it.

1. No. It could easily be used as a backdrop without significantly impacting DS9 at all. The capture of Betazed was just a few lines of dialogue and it wasn't really explored again. You could center a whole movie around its liberation and DS9 wouldn't really be affected by it

2. This is silly. It is absurdly easy to insert a few lines of dialogue early on explaining in basics who the Dominion are and that we're at war with them.

3.Irrelevant, because see the above. You didn't have to see the Borg TNG eps to appreciate First Contact (it sure as hell HELPS), either.

As for having no reason to involve TNG, Troi's homeworld was taken by the Dominion. I think that'd make for a pretty good TNG hook. Yes, I know there was a novel about it, but I'm just talking about film possibilities. Besides which, it's all part of the same world, and the Enterprise is a capable warship in a quadrant-wide war.

 

[Trek Survivor]

I am so glad they didn't go for a Dominion War film. Stretching out the Dominion plotline ruined DS9 from season six onward, I'm glad it didn't infect the movie series as well.

"Insurrection" as produced isn't a perfect film, but it's better than another example of Trek trying to be something that it isn't (or shouldn't be).

 

[ALF]

Yep. Deep Space Nine was the Dominion War movie. Except that it's a series.
Of course, knowing all of this doesn't make INS easier to watch. But luckily Spiner and Stewart managed to infect even Nemesis with the continuing preaching of self improvement and self betterness they started in INS. Ech.

I watched The Final Frontier last night and concluded that it was more fun to watch than Star Trek: Insurrection (Nine Inch Erection).

Problem with Trek films is that they are for Joe Six Pack first and the fans a distant second.

 

[CaptainMatt]

Whatever you think of Insurrection, it was more fun than we had gotten for our Star Trek regulars in quite some time. It stood out better than Nemesis IMHO, and offered a light story that followed the dark seriousness of First Contact. This was in keeping with TNG when it was on TV. They usually did not follow one dark story up with another or out three light-hearted episodes together back to back. Thus it was for the movie run. That said, I do not think Insurrection should have been a Dominion War movie that would quite frankly mirror what they were doing on Ds9.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

While I love the idea of the TNG actually assisting in the Dominion War, the idea of a movie exploring that is just not feasible. ANd here's why:

Making the a TNG movie focused on Dominion War would've been bad on at least three levels:

1. The Dominion War was DS9's main focus, centering on it in a TNG movie would've impacted DS9's storyline.

2. Being a DS9 focus what was going on may not be knowledgeable to Trek fans familiar with TNG but not DS9.

3. The Dominion War certainly wouldn't be knowledgeable to even more casual fan or general audiences.

But, in short, the first point is the biggest one. The Dominion War was DS9's baby, no reason for TNG to do anything with it.

In short, Trekker4747 got the point, and I agree. The Dominion War is, in fact, TOO closely associated with DS9, that it would ultimately feel like a deviation from it, and ultimately, it'd only be handled terribly. I mean, Berman!

That said, all things considered... The film should've been set either before or after the war. Setting INS during it was a bad, bad mistake, because if nothing else, it made Picard and co. extremely stupid by opposing the one chance the Federation had of a regenerative facility for their soldiers during the damn war in which so many of them died, even after the Romulans joining them. Oh, and calling them traitors because of that wouldn't be too far off.

So after that first step, it all depends. But part of the reason the film sucked was because of Berman and Stewart's involvement. I hate to say it, but both of them should've trusted the late Michael Piller more. His original idea was really interesting, and with a few tweaks, it'd be a great follow-up to FC.

 

[StevenR]

Problem with Trek films is that they are for Joe Six Pack first and the fans a distant second.

And that's very true because if the suits wanted to please the fans, they'd have to ask themselves which fans to please. Do we please the ones that just want shit to blow up on screen? Do we please the ones that wants a look at the human condition? Do we please the ones that want some hard science fiction? Do we please the ones that just want a soap opera on a spaceship?

So the suits just go with the least common denominator, which on one that will get the most butts in seats: blow shit up. Lest we forget, the goal is not to tell a good story, it is to make money.

 

[jayrath]

The Dominion War certainly wouldn't be knowledgeable to even more casual fan or general audiences.

I still have no idea what The Dominion War was. I bailed on DS9 after really trying. That's a seperate matter, but the point is the same: TNG fans would have had no idea, and the general audience certainly would have not.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

And even if it was explained in the film they may not have even cared.

 

[ALF]

jayrath, I think if you're a TNG fan you can migrate to DS9 but perhaps start at season three? It worked for me. I'm starting to see TNG and DS9 as a single story now as they were set in the same universe with many of the same characters and several crossovers. Some of the mid series DS9 episodes were pure gold, and as a TNG fan you might be missing out if you skipped them over. There are certainly a handful of DS9 episodes that were heaps better than some of TNG's stinkers.

One of the scenes I love in Insurrection is when Ru'afo looses patience with Doughrty (sp?) and screams "NO!" and blood comes out of his forehead and drips all over the ready room desk. It's grisly but the reaction from Picard is priceless. "One Federation blunder after another!!"

 

[HaventGotALife]

Seriously! They had the perfect chance to show the Enterprises role in the Dominion War, not to mention seeing some of the DS9 cast on the big screen, but instead we got Insurrection, a complete waste of time. I couldn't be more confused...

I completely disagree. I wanted to see them explore. I wanted Insurrection. It's the last time Star Trek wasn't at war or battling a madman.

 

[ALF]

It's the last time Star Trek wasn't at war or battling a madman.

Ru'afo wasn't a madman?

He plotted to enact revenge on his family and friends by stealing from them eternal life. He opened fire on the Federation's flagship. He spent his spare time stretching his face with big-boobed nurses and killed a Federation Admiral.

It all sounds mad to me. Except the part about hiring slutty space nurses. That's just straight up 24th century common sense.

 

[brian577]

Making the a TNG movie focused on Dominion War would've been bad on at least three levels:

1. The Dominion War was DS9's main focus, centering on it in a TNG movie would've impacted DS9's storyline.

2. Being a DS9 focus what was going on may not be knowledgeable to Trek fans familiar with TNG but not DS9.

3. The Dominion War certainly wouldn't be knowledgeable to even more casual fan or general audiences.

But, in short, the first point is the biggest one. The Dominion War was DS9's baby, no reason for TNG to do anything with it.

1. How? The Enterprise wasn't mentioned once during the Dominion War. How would having them being involved in some off screen battle affect continuity?

2. Didn't prevent the war or ketrecel white from being mentioned in Insurrection. A pointless inclusion that actually confused me since I hadn't watched DS9 yet. At least with an actual story about the war it would be no confusing then the the Borg in First Contact and rather easy to bring people up to speed.

3. See above.

 

[GemHaters]

Making the a TNG movie focused on Dominion War would've been bad on at least three levels:

1. The Dominion War was DS9's main focus, centering on it in a TNG movie would've impacted DS9's storyline.

2. Being a DS9 focus what was going on may not be knowledgeable to Trek fans familiar with TNG but not DS9.

3. The Dominion War certainly wouldn't be knowledgeable to even more casual fan or general audiences.

But, in short, the first point is the biggest one. The Dominion War was DS9's baby, no reason for TNG to do anything with it.

1. How? The Enterprise wasn't mentioned once during the Dominion War. How would having them being involved in some off screen battle affect continuity?

2. Didn't prevent the war or ketrecel white from being mentioned in Insurrection. A pointless inclusion that actually confused me since I hadn't watched DS9 yet. At least with an actual story about the war it would be no confusing then the the Borg in First Contact and rather easy to bring people up to speed.

3. See above.

1. Agreed

2. Thank you

And plus, The Dominion War gets mentioned in Nemesis by Commander Riker in the briefing room. He notes that the Romulans used the Remans as cannon fodder for Dominion soliders, basically sending them on suicide missions. But, the most well known, most experienced Starfleet Officers on the most advanced ship in the Fleet saw no front lines time? Seems like a load of BS to me.

 

[22 Stars]

So I guess we are divided here about this and that's fine, but I tell ya, anyone who is saying Insurrection as presented was the better choice has a higher tolerance for cheesy looking, hackneyed story telling than I do. I don't know what a Star Trek Dominion movie would have looked like, but I bet it would have had a fresher look. At least it would have had fewer boring white, blond, crunchy California types walking through hills with llamas.

I preferred Insurrection when it was called "Who Watches the Watchers" and "Homeward" on television years earlier.

 

[ALF]

I preferred Insurrection when it was called "Who Watches the Watchers" and "Homeward" on television years earlier.

Thread winner!

 

[22 Stars]

Whoo hoo, thanks! Now quickly close the thread, turn out the lights and lock the door behind us!