Spoilers Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny grade and discussion
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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I have seen twice already. What gets me is that this film cost north of $300 million to make. For this film to succeed, it needs to make at least a billion dollars. Unbelievable.
Yeah the kid handcuffing the guy underwater to drown was pretty cold (I kinda expected him to somehow escape and pop up later). I never really warmed to Teddy TBH.
I don't agree that Helena is now the main character, this is still Indy's movie, at worst (or best YMMV) Indy and Helena are joint protagonists but I wouldn't even go that far.
One thing that did annoy me. If Indy was wanted for murder how did he get on a plane in NYC?
Yeah, that bothered me, too, and then the whole plot line was dropped after that. I groaned the moment I realized he was going to be accused for murder because such plot devices are so trite and rarely utilized well. Didnt help that it didn't even seem to have a purpose here. Thankfully it didn't eat up much time but it was still annoying.
I don’t think that matters this time out. It will make its money back over time and merch, and a sequel is not expected. It’s a way we’ve come to judge things, but Disney has so much money that this film could easily be argued to be just there to be there. If nothing else it keeps the brand visible, and that’s that.
There is nothing in this excuse that indicates "perfect sense" to me. It simply sounds like an excuse to use Nazis or a Nazi as the main villain. Even in 1969.
It’s the Indy films coming full circle. Like… a dial. Or a bootstrap paradox.
There was dialogue to the effect that the US government was no longer sponsoring Voller because his group had killed several people. My assumption is that Indy was off the hook for the murders at that point.
I'm tempted to say "so the movie could happen" or "hey shut up."
I'm tempted to say "so the movie could happen" or "hey shut up."
Would you like me to get all the way off your back there?
B+
I saw it today with hubby in huge theater with all of six people in it.
Hubby and I both enjoyed it; it was fun. It felt a bit rushed, and was a bit of a downer. I didn't like that Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character was not a really good person for most of it. But the end was good; it had some hope. I also really liked seeing Sallah--wish he'd been in it more.
It was a fun romp---better than Crystal Skull anyway--but that's about it. Not a huge let-down but also not completely successful.
I saw it today with hubby in huge theater with all of six people in it.
Hubby and I both enjoyed it; it was fun. It felt a bit rushed, and was a bit of a downer. I didn't like that Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character was not a really good person for most of it. But the end was good; it had some hope. I also really liked seeing Sallah--wish he'd been in it more.
It was a fun romp---better than Crystal Skull anyway--but that's about it. Not a huge let-down but also not completely successful.
I dunno, using Von Braun as a villain seems like a good idea.
I saw the movie a few days back and was pretty mid on it. Lots of protracted chases across green screens. I thought Helena was charming enough to begin with, but she became more grating than endearing as the movie progressed. Ford has still got it and did well in some of the quieter, character-focused moments. But they were few and far between with Mads teleporting in to initiate the next chase.
I haven't seen Crystal Skull so only have the original trilogy to compare it to. Suffice to say, they should've left well enough alone and let Indy ride off into the sunset. Not a train wreck, but not particularly great either. It was a mediocre experience. Considering the enormous resources that went into it, I have to concur with @Saul
I don't think it's as easy an argument as you suggest. Studios do not spend north of $300 million just to keep a brand visible.
Given the step drop off this weekend and with less than a week before MI7 opens on the back of rave reviews, an absurdly high RT score and the man himself, Indy breaking $500 million global is looking like a pipe dream. If anything, $400 million might be pushing it. We don't know the breakeven figure, but lower estimates put it at around $800 million. Given the underperformance of other Disney IPs, I sincerely doubt losing several hundred million dollars is something the top brass will shrug off with indifference.
Love or hate it (or like me think it's average at best), there's no spinning this into a win.
I haven't seen Crystal Skull so only have the original trilogy to compare it to. Suffice to say, they should've left well enough alone and let Indy ride off into the sunset. Not a train wreck, but not particularly great either. It was a mediocre experience. Considering the enormous resources that went into it, I have to concur with @Saul
I don't think it's as easy an argument as you suggest. Studios do not spend north of $300 million just to keep a brand visible.
Given the step drop off this weekend and with less than a week before MI7 opens on the back of rave reviews, an absurdly high RT score and the man himself, Indy breaking $500 million global is looking like a pipe dream. If anything, $400 million might be pushing it. We don't know the breakeven figure, but lower estimates put it at around $800 million. Given the underperformance of other Disney IPs, I sincerely doubt losing several hundred million dollars is something the top brass will shrug off with indifference.
Love or hate it (or like me think it's average at best), there's no spinning this into a win.
The movie is...okay. It's decent, watchable. But nothing more. It's very safe. I'm sure after the reaction to Crystal Skull they didn't want to take any chances. It doesn't have any moments as bad as the famously bad parts of that movie, and it manages to avoid being embarrassing in itself. But it's kind of not much of anything? I was a bit impressed when it went to 1969 and we see Indy getting out of bed and just how old he's become - phsically and in his mentality sushing the hippies next door. But then once the action starts he's just unbelievably whooshing about, jumping between cars and falling off things and his age is never an issue. Plus 1969 Indy is still ten years younger than Ford's real age so I don't know why they didn't set it a bit later (it doesn't do much with the '69 setting, all the stuff with the Apollo astronauts is just in the background.)
The opening twenty minutes in World War 2 was kind of good but the de-aging wasn't completely convincing (Michael Douglas in Ant-Man still seems to be the high bar eight years later?) and it's all really dark, possibly to disguise the CGI. Toby Jones was pretty fun.
In the 1969 stuff, when they went outside and there was a protest going on and he stole a horse I thought that was pretty fun but it never goes beyond "pretty fun." I found the music distracitng in that bit too, it didn't seem to escalate with the action?
Then there's a load of CGI-heavy chases which have their moments (then continue) but aren't a patch on any of the action scenes from the original films.
PWB was quite good but they went a bit too far in making Helena unlikable once she skipped out on Indy. The kid sidekick was pretty tolerable for a kid sidekick but just made me annoyed we didn't get a Short Round cameo. John Rhys-Davies was good in his two minutes of screentime. I was shocked when Antonio Banderas was third billed in the closing credits as I had forgotten he'd even been in the movie by then (he's the diver who dies within five minutes of first appearing.)
Mads Mikkelsen is always going to be fun as a villain but they just didn't go far enough with him. He doesn't do anything all that evil on screen, his speeches aren't menacing enough for him to really sink his teeth into. They should have at least given him a cool scar or something after he got hit in the face on the train in the opening. Pretty similar to Cate Blanchett in Crystal Skull really, a strong actor not served well by the movie. Boyd Holbrook was really good as the neo Nazi American but gets very little to do after his oepning scenes. And both main villains just die in a plane crash? No face-melting? Nothing chopped off by helicpoter blades? It's all too clean! Even the big henchman guy just drowns offscreen. Indiana Jones is supposed to be gritty.
I did at least like that they went there with the time travel, it was the biggest chance the movie takes. But Indy not having a say in going home? Last Crusade has him choosing to give up the Grail for his father, but here he has no agency. He just wakes up in 1969 again and luckily Marion is so impressed that he time travelled that she comes back to him.
Anyway, I didn't hate it. But I'll never watch it again and probably won't think about it beyond "that could have been so much better" and "Harrison Ford is still cool, at least."
The opening twenty minutes in World War 2 was kind of good but the de-aging wasn't completely convincing (Michael Douglas in Ant-Man still seems to be the high bar eight years later?) and it's all really dark, possibly to disguise the CGI. Toby Jones was pretty fun.
In the 1969 stuff, when they went outside and there was a protest going on and he stole a horse I thought that was pretty fun but it never goes beyond "pretty fun." I found the music distracitng in that bit too, it didn't seem to escalate with the action?
Then there's a load of CGI-heavy chases which have their moments (then continue) but aren't a patch on any of the action scenes from the original films.
PWB was quite good but they went a bit too far in making Helena unlikable once she skipped out on Indy. The kid sidekick was pretty tolerable for a kid sidekick but just made me annoyed we didn't get a Short Round cameo. John Rhys-Davies was good in his two minutes of screentime. I was shocked when Antonio Banderas was third billed in the closing credits as I had forgotten he'd even been in the movie by then (he's the diver who dies within five minutes of first appearing.)
Mads Mikkelsen is always going to be fun as a villain but they just didn't go far enough with him. He doesn't do anything all that evil on screen, his speeches aren't menacing enough for him to really sink his teeth into. They should have at least given him a cool scar or something after he got hit in the face on the train in the opening. Pretty similar to Cate Blanchett in Crystal Skull really, a strong actor not served well by the movie. Boyd Holbrook was really good as the neo Nazi American but gets very little to do after his oepning scenes. And both main villains just die in a plane crash? No face-melting? Nothing chopped off by helicpoter blades? It's all too clean! Even the big henchman guy just drowns offscreen. Indiana Jones is supposed to be gritty.
I did at least like that they went there with the time travel, it was the biggest chance the movie takes. But Indy not having a say in going home? Last Crusade has him choosing to give up the Grail for his father, but here he has no agency. He just wakes up in 1969 again and luckily Marion is so impressed that he time travelled that she comes back to him.
Anyway, I didn't hate it. But I'll never watch it again and probably won't think about it beyond "that could have been so much better" and "Harrison Ford is still cool, at least."
The TSA wasn't a thing in 1969.
Yeah, not even a mention. You'd think Indy might note he once had a young sidekick too. Also considering they met in similar circumstances.
Leads me to believe that the ending was reshot as John Williams mentioned. The hard cut to Indy waking up in present day again, the villains having a bland ending. Disney messing around not knowing what they're doing.
But the police wouldn't be watching the ports/airports/railway stations for a man who's a suspect in a murder case? A random guy in the street recognises Indy immediately but no one else does?
I'm glad Indy didn't stay in the past. Let's face it, shape he was in he'd have lasted forty eight hours, if that, and probably would have spent most of his time in pain or comatose. It's not like he'd have got to enjoy the past for very long.
Went to see the movie yesterday afternoon in a 40% full theater. A fun outing and enjoyable time was had. As others have often mentioned (previously in this thread) I thought the film dragged a bit; 5 or 10 minutes of additional editing cuts probably would have tighten it up a bit.
All in all, I'm glad I paid the Corporate Mouse and saw it in the theater. John Williams score always makes my heart soar...
8/10
Q2
All in all, I'm glad I paid the Corporate Mouse and saw it in the theater. John Williams score always makes my heart soar...
8/10
Q2
Very interesting discussion at the Overthinking It podcast about the movie, they were really positive on it, and near the end, they propose one of their so-crazy-it-has-to-be-right analyses:
By traveling back in time to the battle of Syracuse, Indiana and company were intimately involved in the (impending) death of Archimedes, but who was the second historical figure whose death they influenced? You'll remember at the beginning of the film, the Nazis have supposedly recovered the Spear of Destiny, but Indiana and Voller can both recognize instantly that it's made of a contemporary alloy, so it's not just a forgery, it's a blatantly obvious forgery. But at the end of the movie, they left behind an entire wrecked Nazi plane, full of Nazi equipment, made out of 20th century materials, all in the hands of a Roman Legion. What if they salvaged metal from the crash site, and two hundred years later, some of it has been made into a spearhead for a certain Centurion's lance?
Maybe the Lance of Longinus was authentic, after all.
By traveling back in time to the battle of Syracuse, Indiana and company were intimately involved in the (impending) death of Archimedes, but who was the second historical figure whose death they influenced? You'll remember at the beginning of the film, the Nazis have supposedly recovered the Spear of Destiny, but Indiana and Voller can both recognize instantly that it's made of a contemporary alloy, so it's not just a forgery, it's a blatantly obvious forgery. But at the end of the movie, they left behind an entire wrecked Nazi plane, full of Nazi equipment, made out of 20th century materials, all in the hands of a Roman Legion. What if they salvaged metal from the crash site, and two hundred years later, some of it has been made into a spearhead for a certain Centurion's lance?
Maybe the Lance of Longinus was authentic, after all.
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