Everyone keeps telling me certain movie is trash but it's my second favourite movie of that franchise. So your mileage may vary.
Indiana Jones 5. It's official.
- Thread starter Kelthaz
- Start date
Point of order, the guys at the beginning of Crusade are looters who were hired by a private collector. They don't have permission to remove stuff from the caves and they aren't being careful about the excavation.
What race do you think Egyptians are, pray tell? What you meant was a Welshman is playing an Egyptian.
Which doesn't change that she went from tough Rebel Leader in ANH to nothing but Han's Love Interest in ESB and the whole Slave Leia thing. Strangling Jabba makes up a little, but not enough.
Indy is just as much a "Looter", though. He didn't know who those guys were in Last Crusade, he didn't know what those guys were going to do with the Cross. Heck, originally the Fedora guy was supposed to be Professor Ravenwood.
The Ravenwood connection is interesting trivia, but the character was renamed because they realized it didn't fit with their idea of Ravenwoods backstory.
As for Indy's professionalism, the only adventure we see in the movies that might qualify is the Chachapoyan Idol at the beginning of Raiders. And for all we know that was authorized by the Government of Peru (for a fee). It was certainly sanctioned by Marshall College.
Ah, you say, surely Indy stole the Urn of Nurhachi from its tomb to trade to Lao Che. But Indy says "Welcome home, old boy", strongly implying that he retrieved the urn from a country other than China, repatriating it from a previous looter.
And there's little difference between Marshall College sanctioning these things and Panama Hat doing the same. And Indy's line about Nurhachi could've meant anything, especially considering he was hired by Gangsters to get it.
Hell, Indy is pretty damn amoral in Raiders' beginning:
At the beginning, Indiana doesn't oppose Nazi's: his adversary is a Frenchman trying to acquire the same thing for not entirely different reasons. When the ark comes up, he doesn't care about Nazis, just the prestige of the archeological find. He flat out lies to Marion about the "worthless bronze medallion". And let us not forget why he became estranged from Abner Ravenwood: he seduced Ravenwood's underage daughter.
His only redeeming quality is that he really DID love Marion and that's what drove him to do anything heroic. And even then he fails, and the Ark takes out the Nazis for him.
Last edited:
You can tap it lightly to see if it's true though.
AKA "doin' mah own resurch"
Thats patently ridiculous, we might have decided to change our standards about artifact acquisition in the last 90 years, but I refuse to hold the past to the same standard. And an authorized academic excursion is different from unauthorized digging on Federal land, no matter what the year.
You got a better interpretation other than this is the first time the Urn has been in China for quite some time? Of course considering Mao's actions regarding Chinese artifacts a few years later, maybe it would have been better to leave it in foreign hands in hindsight.
Thats by design and Indy has a solid character arc from 1912 to 1938.
Why and when would Indy make any particular comments about the Nazis? They haven't tried to kill him yet, and Kristallnacht won't happen for another 2 years. His close friend Marcus is certainly offended that the US government thinks Abner could be a sympathizer.
A turn of phrase, Marion has no use for it, he offers her 3000 dollars for it literally the next sentence, then another 2000 on top of that.
The movie isn't about retrieving the Ark at all. The movie is actually about reconnecting with Marion. For example, the oft repeated line that Indy doesn't affect the movie is wrong, without Indy, Marion gets killed in Nepal by Toht.
It doesn't change that Indy had no clue who those guys were, what they were going to do with the Cross, that Coronado didn't leave it for anyone so HE didn't want it in a Museum either. Yet he saw fit to steal from those guys without knowing. Then 20 years later he steals it from Panama Hat again and kills Panama Hat in the process.
"Home" in that it's going to a Chinaman compared to wherever he found it...and the guy he got it for was a Gangster and Indy knew this. It wasn't going to go to a Museum.
It's not that specifically, it's that he's against Belloq despite Belloq not being that different from him.
The Nazis didn't know where she was without Indy leading them to her. He was responsible for the Nazis going after her to start with. So he tries to scam her out of something worth way more than 5000$ and leads the Nazis to her.
All I'm trying to say is that it's not really anything new for someone to comment on Indy's less than heroic qualities. Marion and Willie did it all throughout Raiders and Temple, so why is anyone mad that Phoebe does it too?
I think in Last Crusade Indy becomes sympathetic. Off and on in Raiders and not at all in Temple.
The Nazis would have found her eventually, with or without Indy, so my point stands. Also $5000 in 1936 is over $100,000 today, so I don't think he was low-balling her.
Nothing implies that, they wouldn't have followed Indy if they knew themselves. And heck, if he hadn't come to her first and offered the money, she might've just given the Medallion to the Nazis without any hassle.
Point stands, he causes as much of the conflict and problems as he solves. If that even. The idea that he's undeserving of criticism is wrong-headed.
Oh right, like Lucas NEVER did that...
Indy hadn't spoken to Abner in a decade and he still heard that he ended up in Nepal, and once he got there, apparently had no trouble tracking down the bar. The Nazis are definitely able to do the same, they just didn't have to.
I don't disagree with this point in general, I just find your examples lacking.
Lucas' failures do not, in any way, excuse Kennedy's.
Nope.
Indeed. "Panama Hat" was a thief for personal gain (whether in the employ of another or himself), not any sort of genuine archaeological interest / knowledge, so the stretch-till-it-snaps / false equivalency made is yet another feeble attempt to tear apart a character--especially during his undeniably greatest period of the franchise (see the usual suspects comments about Star Wars).
Yes, that's the whole idea of his arc. I might not like him, but that doesn't make him less a protagonist. There is a clear line through his character growth, and it has a similarity to Han's in Star Wars.
It's effectiveness will vary from person to person, but it is certainly there. No, you don't have to like the character.
Similar threads
