If You Could Rewrite "The Original Series" . . .

[ZapBrannigan]

Not so much a mistake as an ethical choice.

In my view, it's both.

So if Spock randomly kills various natives, he is likely to kill one who would otherwise have children and descendants that would increase in number and eventually become the entire population of his species for countless ages to come. Thus randomly killing natives is likely to change the entire population of the species for countless ages to come. Which seems like a big change to me.

A very great man, I think it was Mister Spock, once said that change is the essential process of all existence.

And in any case, since the future hasn't happened yet, it's not a set, fixed thing-- to say nothing of a sacred, inviolable thing whose exact and precious features have already been decided. If the Galileo party had killed a few hyper-aggressive creatures, that tiny tweak to the gene pool might have led to a more peaceful and advanced future population on Taurus II.

Or, if all the giant apes on Taurus II were equally aggressive, then Starfleet's self-defense would not matter, because where one individual in a planetary population gets killed and does not have X-number of descendants, another one probably will have them, to fill the available carrying capacity (basically, the food supply) of that environment.

An Arthur C. Clarke story, "A Meeting with Medusa" (1971) I think, had a scene where the protagonist discovers lifeforms in the clouds of Jupiter. He remembers a television program he once saw with an astronaut and a space lawyer. The space lawyer mentions the laws about contact with alien life, whether intelligent of not. He says that the law of space requires an astronaut who encounters alien life to do everything he possibly can to avoid disturbing or interfering with the alien life, even at the coast of the astronaut's life. The astronaut asks incredulously if that means he has to let an alien creature eat him without fighting back. "That's right." the lawyer says.

I think that's some flawed ethics, because it fails to put any value on us. Why are our lives worth nothing, and the alien worth everything? Does this mean that if sentient aliens visit the Earth, their lives shall have no value? If so, said aliens will be certain to question such extreme ethical posturing.

 

[Maurice]

That's a very eugenics-y discussion as regards the Tarsus II beings, and to that... ew.

 

[Tenacity]

Not so much a mistake as an ethical choice

Can't say I agree with your interpretations.

Kirk spoke with conviction about a commanding officers responsibilities to his ship and crew, apparently Spock wasn't listening.

 

[Commishsleer]

I pointed to the 1960's owing to that's when TOS was being written and produced.My crowd usually brings racks energy drinks. Alcohol isn't unknown, but also isn't the standard.Paradise Syndrome. Spock himself noted that the interior of the obelisk was the only area he couldn't scan, yet he didn't put that together with not being able to locating Kirk on the scanners.

The search for Kirk didn't require Spock's personal attention, he could have left search parties, shuttles and supplies while he took the Enterprise at a more leisurely pace to deflect the asteroid. Inability to delegate responsibility is a command flaw.

And when his chief engineer told him that the power systems need important maintenance, Spock should have listened. Scotty is a expert in his specialty.

Kirk was responsible for the delay on the planet insisting on another search when Spock told him they only had half an hour left.
So once they walked back to the obelisk and Kirk disappeared they probably only had at most 20 minutes to search the planet before they had to leave So the opportunity for leisurely pace was gone. Unless Spock you think Spock shouldn't have spent any time searching. I doubt he had time to send a shuttle but he certainly should have left a search party. I probably would just have left McCoy there if I was Spock you know in case Kirk needed medical help not just to avoid the nagging.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Kirk was responsible for the delay on the planet insisting on another search when Spock told him they only had half an hour left.

Given how close they were cutting it, namely 30 minutes at the end of an interstellar journey, the Enterprise should have deflected the asteroid before visiting the planet at all. I'm sure you agree.

So once they walked back to the obelisk and Kirk disappeared they probably only had at most 20 minutes to search the planet before they had to leave So the opportunity for leisurely pace was gone. Unless you think Spock shouldn't have spent any time searching. I doubt he had time to send a shuttle but he certainly should have left a search party. I probably would just have left McCoy there if I was Spock you know in case Kirk needed medical help not just to avoid the nagging.

Yep. Instead of having that long talk with McCoy about the approaching asteroid, Spock should have just whipped it out and said, "Spock to Enterprise. Beam down two security guards with survival kits for three men, on the double."

Then: "Doctor, brief the guards on the Captain's disappearance. I will return for you as soon as possible. Enterprise, one to beam up." And give the order to leave orbit as soon as the guards have landed. Just get going.

But there'd be one more thing: Sulu will think Spock is going rogue like he did in "The Menagerie." So allow another minute for McCoy to take a call from the bridge and corroborate the fact that Kirk is missing.

Of course, then you'd barely have an episode.

 

[Tenacity]

So once they walked back to the obelisk and Kirk disappeared they probably only had at most 20 minutes to search the planet before they had to leave

My impression only.

Leaving after Kirk's one more look around would have provide plenty of time to reach the rock, without straining the engines.

I feel Spock's search for Kirk went far beyond the 30 minute figure (multiple hours), it was this search that resulted in the high speed dash to reach the deflection point by a certain set time.

The ground search didn't require the presence of the ship in orbit.

If Spock felt that he absolutely needed to personally direct the search efforts, he could have placed Sulu (or someone else) in temporary command and had him deflect the rock. Without the high speed dash, deflecting the rock would have been a pretty straight forward task.

But that would have involved Spock delegating responsibility.

 

[Commishsleer]

I think there were 3 realistic reasons for the Enterprise's failure to deflect the meteor enough.

I'm eliminating the Spock's gone insane and wants the captaincy reason (McCoy's first guess) and also the real reason - the plot demands it.

1. The Enterprise left late delayed because of the search for the captain.
2. They got there on time but Spock's calculations were incorrect
3. They got there on time but there was something unknown about the meteor (perhaps it wasn't made of iron as they expected or it rotated or it was some superfast meteor with weird properties)

I'm thinking its not 2. My guess is 3 but it could be 1.
If it was 1 or 3 then Spock may have thought they had some leeway. However if they were late should Spock have burnt the engines out trying to deflect it?
They could have spent the next 3 months beaming people up from the planet/searching for Kirk if they couldn't deflect the asteroid. Of course it would be traumatic for the villagers. So that could have factored in Spock's calculations to risk the Enterprise's engines. I'm not sure whether the PD applies there. Maybe there were too many people on the planet for evacuation or there was no suitable planet nearby to dump them.

 

[lpetrich]

Get rid of those minidresses -- they are totally laughable as work outfits. The first two pilots and most of the movies and subsequent series are a *lot* better there.

Also, make Spock 100% Vulcan -- cross-species hybrids are only feasible for *very* closely related species. Abolish such hybrids for all the other series also.

Give Uhura more to do, like eavesdropping by listening in on communications. I once wrote a story where a character does that. Having Uhura be unfamiliar with "video" seems silly (Bread and Circuses) -- she would likely have run into a lot of low-tech video transmissions over her career. Another thing that she could do is act as an interpreter of cultural categories and stereotypes, to try to avoid dangerous misunderstandings. Also an interpreter of allusions to works of literature, like in TNG "Darmok".

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Get rid of those minidresses -- they are totally laughable as work outfits.

I suppose if most of your job involved sitting at a desk all day, you might not mind it. Whatever's comfortable.

 

[Pauln6]

Get rid of those minidresses -- they are totally laughable as work outfits. The first two pilots and most of the movies and subsequent series are a *lot* better there.

Also, make Spock 100% Vulcan -- cross-species hybrids are only feasible for *very* closely related species. Abolish such hybrids for all the other series also.

Give Uhura more to do, like eavesdropping by listening in on communications. I once wrote a story where a character does that. Having Uhura be unfamiliar with "video" seems silly (Bread and Circuses) -- she would likely have run into a lot of low-tech video transmissions over her career. Another thing that she could do is act as an interpreter of cultural categories and stereotypes, to try to avoid dangerous misunderstandings. Also an interpreter of allusions to works of literature, like in TNG "Darmok".

The mini skirts became iconic. Trek might not be where it is today without them. I'm sure they got people talking at the time. It was the actresses (both Grace Lee Whitney and Persis Khambatta) who suggested putting their legs on display. In Grace's case it was partly because mini skirts were seen as empowering in the sixties but with the benefit of hindsight maybe it increased the incidence of the women being little more than eye candy.

I think it's quite shocking how the writing for the women devolved so rapidly from the pilots. It looks like worries about the censors led to them toning down Rand's sassy dialogue or editing her part out of some episodes completely and Uhura's role was whittled away to be less diverse too. Having seen Ellison's graphic novel of CotEoF, it's interesting to see that Uhura's eventual role was a fraction of what Rand's would have been in the original script. It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall when someone said, 'Should Uhura be working on cryptography? ' 'nah, give it to Spock.'

 

[Maurice]

1. Miniskirts. Grace Lee claimed she came up with the idea of the miniskirt, but there's no proof of that, albeit it's possible. We can't ask Theiss or Roddenberry if this was so. And miniskirts were all over TV in that era (Batman for one), so it was hardly unique to TOS or at all innovative.

2. Writing for women devolving. The network had nothing to do with that. I've read lots of memos from the network and none of them ever suggest dumbing down or marginalizing anyone. If anything, they admonish against diminishing characters.

3. Cryptography? Uhura was the radioman on the bridge, not a codebreaker. Not her job.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

3. Cryptography? Uhura was the radioman on the bridge, not a codebreaker. Not her job.

The Enterprise has a cryptography section. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Cryptography

 

[Lord Garth]

If I could re-write TOS,

1. I'd have TAS expanded into an hour-long format, made shootable for live-action, and filmed. And I'd throw in Chekov. Fourth season right there.

2. I'd re-worked Phase II with Spock in there would be the fifth season.

3. I'd throw in a modified version of of The God Thing and Planet of The Titans into the fifth season.

So I'd have TOS plus everything that was written in the '70s added to it.

 

[Pauln6]

1. Miniskrts. Grace Lee claimed she came up with the idea of the miniskirt, but there's no proof of that, albeit it's possible. We can't ask Theiss or Roddenberry if this was so. And miniskirts were all over TV in that era (Batman for one), so it was hardly unique to TOS or at all innovative.

2. Writing for women devolving. The network had nothing to do with that. I've read lots of memos from the network and none of them ever suggest dumbing down or marginalizing anyone. If anything, they admonish against diminishing characters.

3. Cryptography? Uhura was the radioman on the bridge, not a codebreaker. Not her job.

1. Her claims don't count as proof ? Has anybody ever claimed that she didn't? [I don't know the answer, it's just curious that you feel the need to challenge her claim].
2. I didn't mean to suggest that the network encouraged or forced them to marginalise the women but the quality of the writing for the women dropped off rapidly nonetheless. If the network discouraged it, it's even harder to work out why it happened. Rand seemed doomed from the start, partly because Grace was on an expensive contract and her role was often small, and partly because she was in a stereotypical damsel in distress role that was probably uninspiring for the network. The role the yeomen in the navy is clerical but I've heard some suggest that a more interesting interpretation would have been a military batman, the Captain's personal valet, who ferries him around (personal shuttle pilot), and acts as his bodyguard in combat. This does look like the direction Ellison was headed in the original script for CotEoF. At least with that interpretation you could see why yeomen went on landing party duty so often in season one. I lament that missed opportunity.
3. Spock's a physicist. Cryptography is not his job either really but... I've never liked shoe-horning characters into tangential roles for convenience but I applaud attempts to expand their existing role. It would certainly have made sense for Uhura to have wider computer and codebreaking skills than were in evidence even if she just assisted Spock a bit more often.

I've been re-reading the Phase II scripts this week and it does look as though there would have been a bit of effort to play to the characters' strengths more often. It would have been fun to see more of that generally.

 

[Maurice]

1. Lots of people who worked on the shows have claimed lots of things that turned out to not be so. So a little skepticism is not a bad thing. As Nolan Bushnell said, "My brain takes credit for things."

2. My point is that the network does not appear to have encouraged diminishing the women's roles, and would not have said, "less smart women". If you want to point fingers at the writing of women, you can pretty safely point to the two Genes and other writing staff.

3. Spock's the show's Brainiac, and effectively a Swiss Army Knife. Early on they would refer to things like "lab theorizes" but writer laziness quickly had Spock figure everything out himself, sometimes without batting an eye or even looking in his scanner. Ugh.

 

[Pauln6]

1. Lots of people who worked on the shows have claimed lots of things that turned out to not be so. So a little skepticism is not a bad thing. As Nolan Bushnell said, "My brain takes credit for things."

2. My point is that the network does not appear to have encouraged diminishing the women's roles, and would not have said, "less smart women". If you want to point fingers at the writing of women, you can pretty safely point to the two Genes and other writing staff.

3. Spock's the show's Brainiac, and effectively a Swiss Army Knife. Early on they would refer to things like "lab theorizes" but writer laziness quickly had Spock figure everything out himself, sometimes without batting an eye or even looking in his scanner. Ugh.

A lot of script edits that I've seen tended to prune down the parts of the women . I do find it curious that they fell into the pattern so readily. Vina, Number One, and Denher stand up pretty well today. Not many other characters do. I wonder if there were ever any thoughts to give Uhura a beefier role in CotEoF?

I agree with what you say about Spock. Early Data was written that way too. I think it cheapens his character and denies other characters any growth but then they screwed over Chapel too by never mentioning her bio research credentials ever again and demoting her to the girl who hands McCoy slides in disease of the week episodes.

 

[FormerLurker]

Nichelle Nichols also takes credit for the miniskirts. The one thing they both seemed to agree on is that they went to confront GR about it together, roping Majel Barrett in with them when she showed up.

NIchelle wanting in on it is certainly plausible. She did end up with the shortest skirt, after all.

 

[Tenacity]

Grace Lee Whitney said she was the advocate for the miniskirt,

Herb Solow and Robert. Justman back this up in Inside Star Trek: The Real Story.

So not just her say so.

 

[johnnybear]

I liked the mini-skirts so I'm glad they were in the show and I wouldn't have changed them for anything!
JB

 

[lpetrich]

(About the TOS minidresses...)

I suppose if most of your job involved sitting at a desk all day, you might not mind it. Whatever's comfortable.

I concede about physically light sorts of work like office work. But for anything heavier, those minidresses are impractical.