I Hate Myself

[SPCTRE]

Admiral Shran, something else that occurs to me--following on from what Lindley said--is that are you very unlikely to end up in any kind of meaningful relationship so long as you are so unhappy with yourself. It may be a cliche, but if you don't love yourself, how can you expect anyone else to? I get the impression you are latching onto the idea of getting a relationship as something that will make your life meaningful and therefore make you valuable as a person, but that's not true. You have to be valuable to yourself first. Think about your good qualities. Talk yourself up, mentally.

After all, what self-respecting woman would want to go out with someone who is so down on himself? If you think people can't tell because you put on your "mask," you'd be surprised how easily it is to pick up on body language and posture. You don't have to say "I'm depressed and alone," you can broadcast it for miles just by how you carry yourself--and people will avoid you.

I guess what this all boils down to is, focus on building yourself up first. Nurture some interests, get some friends (both male and female), stop thinking negatively about yourself all the time. As you get to know more people, relationships will follow naturally from that. You'll find women with common interests and maybe hit it off with someone. But first you need the confidence to crawl out of your shell and actually interact with people. Don't tolerate negative thoughts toward yourself. Just don't. When you catch yourself thinking something negative, put a stop to it and replace it with something that's good about you. There is being accountable to yourself--which is a good thing--and then there's self-hatred, and I think you're very much in the latter box at the moment.

^ I think that's great advice in general.

 

[Gryffindorian]

There are people out there who are much worse off than you.

.

Don't ever say that to someone. Seriously, that's like psych 101. Because now, not only do they still feel like shit, now they also feel guilty for feeling like shit.

Different people have different problems and different hurdles and people approach and react to them in different ways.

It's not like Shran is consulting a bunch of board-certified psychiatrists here. He's feeling bad about himself, and so he vents and seeks feedback from his peers. But it's true, though. Sometimes you are your own worst enemy. Feeling ashamed, timid, or anxious isn't going to allow that person to really enjoy life. If he's depressed and/or anxious, then it's important that he seek professional help.

 

[Lindley]

Something I've realized in the last few years is that if I find I'm trying to talk myself out of something without good reason, it's all the more important that I do it.

 

[JonathonWally]

There are people out there who are much worse off than you.

.

Don't ever say that to someone. Seriously, that's like psych 101. Because now, not only do they still feel like shit, now they also feel guilty for feeling like shit.

Different people have different problems and different hurdles and people approach and react to them in different ways.

It's not like Shran is consulting a bunch of board-certified psychiatrists here.

That's no reason to say shit to someone. If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut. It's good advice for you to follow.

 

[Kestra]

If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut.

Giving advice on things you know nothing about is one of the foundations of Misc.

 

[propita]

I understand what you're getting at. Tell me if this sounds familiar.

You feel awful, people don't understand because they don't have a problemm that's similar enough. Someone saying "have confidence in yourself" or "don't be so anxious" is equivalent to saying "You won't have this problem if you don't have this problem." Well, duh.

I suffered through years, decades, of self-hate. I so disliked myself that I could not believe my parents loved me, no matter what they tried to tell me. How could they love me? I was worthless, useless. I had no one I considered friends because I avoided people--I didn't want to inflict my presence on them. I was stuck with me, but they didn't have to be.

And yet, in high school, I tried being "normal"--was on the drill team, yearbook staff, etc. But when people signed my yearbook, many comments were about my not being so hard on myself. Every time I tried to do something, past accomplishments meant absolutely nothing. So I thought that if I could just do things "right," I would actually feel good about myself. It doesn't work that way.

I kept trying, which is why I was able to hold a job for 16 years, find a man I loved and be with him for 20+ years, and go back to school and then law school.

While in law school, I was diagnosed with disthymia/dysthymia--which basically meant that I was physiologically incapable of self-confidence. No positive feelings like that got permanently stored. Which meant that I was ALWAYS overly-anxious in some situations, to the point of affecting my health. And NO ONE understands unless they have it or know someone with it.

Does any of this sound familiar or similar?

If it does and you want, pm me.

 

[Marie1]

^^ Don't you mean TNZ??

Seriously though, there is some good advice in this thread. Take a deep breathe, and put it to use. Go out, do what you enjoy, and you'll meet people with the same interests. Be happy with yourself first, and it'll all fall into place.

You too Jetfire!!

 

[Gryffindorian]

Don't ever say that to someone. Seriously, that's like psych 101. Because now, not only do they still feel like shit, now they also feel guilty for feeling like shit.

Different people have different problems and different hurdles and people approach and react to them in different ways.

It's not like Shran is consulting a bunch of board-certified psychiatrists here.

That's no reason to say shit to someone. If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut. It's good advice for you to follow.

You're an ass, and you should get off your fucking high horse before you fall off and break your neck. I didn't say shit to Shran. If you don't agree with what I say, then you can take your own advice and shut up yourself. What makes you think your advice is better than mine or anyone else's, for that matter?

 

[JonathonWally]

It's not like Shran is consulting a bunch of board-certified psychiatrists here.

That's no reason to say shit to someone. If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut. It's good advice for you to follow.

You're an ass, and you should get off your fucking high horse before you fall off and break your neck. I didn't say shit to Shran. If you don't agree with what I say, then you can take your own advice and shut up yourself. What makes you think your advice is better than mine or anyone else's, for that matter?

Because I didn't make him feel guilty for his issues like you did.

 

[Gryffindorian]

That's no reason to say shit to someone. If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut. It's good advice for you to follow.

You're an ass, and you should get off your fucking high horse before you fall off and break your neck. I didn't say shit to Shran. If you don't agree with what I say, then you can take your own advice and shut up yourself. What makes you think your advice is better than mine or anyone else's, for that matter?

Because I didn't make him feel guilty for his issues like you did.

This coming from a psychoanalyst like yourself? Puh-leeze.

Now I finally get to put someone on my Ignore List.

 

[TheBrew]

Well this thread is going well...

 

[TerokNor]

I agree with Robert Maxwell. The first step is to open yourself for yourself, to find meaning in life and see/feel the beauty of life by yourself, without someone else...and then comes the someone else.
I am not the best advise giver in this area however, as relationships are my "black sheep" as well (though quite a different story then yours), but I think that one thing playing into your anxiety could be "thinking with the others head". ( "When I say this, she might think that and when I do this etc.) Try to do SMALL things in everyday life, that YOU enjoy, not connected with/ focused on relationships and despite what other people think about this small amounts of quality you build up for yourself, cause it simply does no matter what they think, if they think anything about it at all (that does not mean be an egoist, just have that portion of healthy egoism, that does not hurt anyone). You are important and have a right to make yourself a happy living, but you have to do that by yourself, no one else can do it for you, also not a partner.
However when you have mastered that for yourself, I think the possibilty to find a partner and for you to be able to talk to her, increases. (Note: It is my non-professional opinion at least with what I could read out of your post, without knowing you.)

TerokNor

 

[JiNX-01]

Some of you are probably already asking yourselves "why would you say you hate yourself"? Well, the answer to that is quite simple - I'm 31 years old and have the social skills of an extremely shy, socially awkward 11-year-old. I have a truly deep-seated fear of interacting with women, and even more especially with women I find attractive. I have absolutely no idea why I have this problem, but it's been there ever since I was in the 6th grade.

First of all, let me say this: You are not alone. Lonely? Very likely. But not alone.
Secondly, social skills take practice. It doesn't matter whether you are pursuing a job, working with colleagues and bosses or asking a girl out on a date.

I've never had a girlfriend and have only been on three dates in my entire life (none of which went further than the first date and none of which went all that well to start with - mostly because of my anxiety). So that means that yes I am, in fact, a 31-year-old virgin, and that's putting it mildly. I'm a 31-year-old who's never even kissed a woman. Hell, I've never even done as much as hold hands with a woman. This is despite the fact that having a relationship is the one and only thing I actually care about in this world.

^ Very useful information. Have you shared this with your therapist? Because I would say this is could key to unlocking your anxieties. If this is truly all you care about -- with all that life has to offer -- it would explain why you become anxious in the company of a woman -- especially a woman you are interested in. You're so worried about succeeding with her that you literally can't relax and just enjoy her company.

To this I would add, girls don't bite (unless, of course, you want us to ). We're just like you. We're nervous on a first date. We want it to go well. And we're relieved when we (or you) discover a common interest.

I'm really depressed about this, so much so that I have trouble getting out of bed most mornings. I've even considered suicide over it, though thankfully have never tried to carry it out.

To which I will add, thank God. I lost a cousin to suicide and believe me, it fixes nothing and forever breaks the hearts of all those you leave behind.

I've been seeing a psychologist for over three and a half years due to this depression/anxiety and it hasn't really helped beyond lessening some of the pain momentarily (just by having someone to talk to about it). Though I can't fault the doctor for that failure, as she's really tried her best to help me. We've tried talk therapy, cognitive-behavioral therapy, systematic desensitization therapy, and a whole host of other therapies. We've even tried various types of medications (I can't remember all the different types I've been on, but I know I've tried Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Celexa, and Buspirone). However, I'm still unable to even make eye contact with women I'm interested in - I'm that anxious.

Nearly four years and you've gotten nowhere?
Two suggestions you might want to consider:
1. Print out your original post here and take it with you for your next session. OR
2. Get a new therapist.
Not surprised the medications didn't help. Pills don't give you confidence. You clearly lack a sense of self-worth. Yet there are people who clearly think you have worth because we want to help.

Add to that the fact that I honestly don't think my family or friends really care about the situation and that further fuels the depression.

They might be at a loss to find ways to help you. You say below that they offer simplistic advice, telling you to go on E-harmony.com which I agree is pointless.

My few friends just brush it off like it's some joke, telling me that "all you have to do is just talk to them." Try as I might to make them understand, they just can't or won't see that that is the problem - I can't just do it. That's like telling a person who's just had his arm cut off with chainsaw to just stop screaming because, after all, all he has to do is "just do it."

Again, people who have no personal experience with emotional problems such as anxiety in certain situations tend to think of depression (or any other mental illness such as phobias) as some kind of weakness to be overcome.

My parents, sister, and brother-in-law, whenever I bring up the subject with them, act completely indifferent about it and often seem like it's nothing more than a burden to them to have to deal with it. Pretty much the only "advice" I get from any of them is when they give me an order - not a suggestion, not a request, an ORDER - to get on Eharmony, like that is going to do anything. I tried Eharmony once, along with other online dating services, and guess what - nothing came from it. Then again, when you're too afraid to talk to women, even from behind the safety of a computer screen, Eharmony isn't going to get you much is it? In fact, they recently ordered me to try Eharmony again. So, I did. I've been on there for about a month now. Guess what - nothing has come from it because I'm too much of a coward to communicate with anybody.

OK, first up: Your problem is not cowardice. So knock that off.

And I'm not going to go into detail about my sister and brother-in-law, other than to say that it even further depresses that my baby sister beat me to the alter before I've even held hands with a woman. When they got married last October I had to be in the wedding party, since I was the only sibling of the bride. I even had to say the prayer at the start of the reception. I can tell you that that wasn't easy. It still amazes me that I was able to keep a straight face that entire day, since I was literally crying for myself inside.

You're not alone there either. There were four kids in my family. My youngest brother is the only one who married and had kids.

Every day I get up and put on a mask for the world to see that says "everything's fine" because I'm too afraid to let my true feeling show. I've been thinking about posting this stuff here on TrekBBS for quite a while now. I think the only reasons I finally decided to do it were because I've been encouraged to do so by others, I simply had to get this off my chest somehow, and, thanks to my Admiral Shran handle, I can keep my anonymity.

So, if you've read this far, thanks for reading and what do think?

I think you'd be a good friend.

 

[iguana_tonante]

, but I think that one thing playing into your anxiety could be "thinking with the others head"

I totally misinterpreted that the first time I read it.

 

[Timby]

I'm going to be extraordinarily blunt: If you define yourself by your inability to have a relationship, you're going to trap yourself into a non-stop loop of self-hatred: "I hate myself because a woman won't love me, women won't love me because I hate myself, I hate myself because women won't love me," and so on.

It sounds like you should stop expecting the pills to cure what ails you, and instead actually focus on improving yourself (and getting some significant support to assist that effort, including seeing a new psychologist / therapist). If you're not seeing a psychologist, but only seeing a psychiatrist for your prescriptions, change that immediately.

 

[Holdfast]

... having a relationship is the one and only thing I actually care about in this world.

Unpick this you must, before you face Vader.

Personally, I'd hire as many hookers as I could afford.

You know, if you kill them afterwards and get your money back, you can actually afford an infinite number of hookers.

Advanced mathematics; it works.

 

[propita]

There are people out there who are much worse off than you.

.

Don't ever say that to someone. Seriously, that's like psych 101. Because now, not only do they still feel like shit, now they also feel guilty for feeling like shit.

Different people have different problems and different hurdles and people approach and react to them in different ways.

It's not like Shran is consulting a bunch of board-certified psychiatrists here. He's feeling bad about himself, and so he vents and seeks feedback from his peers. But it's true, though. Sometimes you are your own worst enemy. Feeling ashamed, timid, or anxious isn't going to allow that person to really enjoy life. If he's depressed and/or anxious, then it's important that he seek professional help.

As I posted, "Stop feeling like that" isn't very helpful.

And honestly, when one feels so awful about themselves, who really cares if there are others worse off? Always being mindful of the status of others negates one's own emtions, positive AND negative. "Don't feel bad about your lot, others have it worse off" can equate to "Don't feel good about your lot, others have it better (or worse, I guess) off."

Though you are definitely correct about the seeking professional help when things go too far. And while the BBS is great for many things, it does not give diagnoses.

 

[AMQ]

Do you have problem talking with the women you are not attracted to, too?
All anxiety is understandable if you find relationship to be the one and only thing you actually care about in this world, but you shouldn't put so much effort in first contact, look for a girl friend, not necessarily for the woman of your life.
You know what's my problem? Not communication, but I feel like dating application hasn't been installed on me yet... Just can't see it happening.

 

[LitmusDragon]

I'm struggling with a lot of the same issues that you are Shran. In my case however I wasn't always this bad off and have gotten worse as I've gotten older (36). I had girlfriends until about 21 then something happened to me, I'm not sure what. The past caught up, I guess. Now I'm a nervous wreck.

I think the answer for me at least is therapy. Talking to a professional has got to be better than the usual "get better, why don't you" advice you are going to get from people on the street. I wish I could say that I'm in therapy, but I've actually been putting it off. Don't feel like talking about my past just yet.

 

[sidious618]

This coming from a psychoanalyst like yourself? Puh-leeze.

Now I finally get to put someone on my Ignore List.

Go ahead and do that but what he said was 100% accurate. Telling him how so many others are worse off is much more harmful than saying nothing at all which is what you should've done.

My advice? New therapist, man. This one may be great but they're not the right fit for you.