I am watching DS9 for the first time (some observations)

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by CRM-114, May 20, 2019.

  1. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    Okay done with Treachery, Faith and the Great River, Once More Unto the Breach, The Siege of AR-558, Covenant and It's Only a Paper Moon

    Treachery, Faith and the Great River
    Now to be completely honest while both plots are good, they are a little too tonally dissonant.
    Like there's plenty of stuff that I enjoy when It comes to the episode, Miles and Nog's interactions, the constant ramping up of the situation, Miles' increasing anger, for example when Nog is explaining how Lorenzo will give them an induction modulator, and they'll trade that for something else, you can see Miles' face get red with anger great acting by Meany there and as more and more stuff disappears with his authorization code on it :lol:. This plot also gives them both some development and shows how far they've come with their friendship. And I love the concept of Great Material Continuum, adding some nice layers to the Ferengi culture. A part of me also wishes the GMC was made to just see O'brien's reaction to that.
    The plot with Odo and Weyoun 6 was great, The idea of of a Vorta defecting or not really playing by the rules like Keevan did is very interesting especially since Weyoun 6 gives Odo the idea of rebuilding The Dominion since the founders are dying of a illness. I also loved the back-and-forth with Weyoun 6 and 7 about Weyoun 6 being defective and Damar's remarks being thrown in there as well Damar convincing Weyoun 7 to destroy the runabout not only showing that Weyoun 7 is a little different himself and showing off some of Damar's sneakiness(especially with the transporter "accident")
    And building relationship between Odo and Weyoun 6, and the reveal of the disease spread throughout The Link along with fact that one of few people Odo could relate to sacrificed himself, so tragic :weep:. Overall pretty good episode

    Once More Unto the Breach
    I wasn't really excepting a Klingon episode during this run, and this one is pretty alright. I like foreshadowing in the beginning of this one with Bashir and O'brien discussing Davy Crockett and hero's legends that leads into the main plot of this episode. While I enjoy the ship battle sequences there are only a few things I really want to talk about, With one of them being that scene with Quark and Ezri at the bar especially the parts after it, I really love how Armin delivers that sweetheart line. But mainly how the crew is enamored with Kor until he begins to show his old age and then scene where everyone is making fun him for his slip on the bridge and then just Kor's quote "Savour the fruit of life, my young friends. It has a sweet taste when it 'is fresh from the vine. But don't live too long. The taste turns bitter after a time." With everyone just standing stunned afterword and Martok realizing how unenjoyable it was seeing him suffer compared to how to he imaged it to be. And then final scene with everyone singing to Kor as finally got his last wish what a great sendoff to his character. Overall an alright episode

    The Siege of AR-558
    Ooooh this one, I know DS9 has already done episodes with War themes but this is probably my favorite iteration of it. Getting to see the frontlines of combat instead what we usually see, the brutality and emotions that come with it, and after the fact. The building of relationships and friends only to see them fall. And the final with Battle just the music and SFX, God the soundtrack for this episode really is amazing. Overall a great episode

    Covenant
    Despite me not really caring for Kira/Odo I do still really enjoy their interactions, like how in the beginning he starts discussing about believing The Prophets just because he wants to go to services with Kira very sweet indeed. But of course the meat of the episode is hey! Dukat's back and he's in a cult. Now Dukat joining the Pai-wraith cult after his emissions in Waltz doesn't exactly make alot sense to me given his actions before, but since he was possessed by Pai-wraith maybe that had something to do with it. But here I really didn't feel like it gelled into anything. Like there are some themes with forgiveness, contradictions, for example Dukat not only a Cardassian but the prefect of Bajor preaching about love and how he wants to help The Bajorans along with Kira and Fala's arguments about Dukat, the nature of the true gods of Bajor and how faith effects them but I don't think any of it culminated into anything. Of course the scene where Dukat tries kill Mika does bring us back into all of Dukat's flaws his self-servicing nature, his disregard for lives, all of it which goes into the alot of true sadness of this one, with how if Dukat had his way followers would've all died, so loyal and blind to faith, ready to die for it. And Fala who took his life anyway all because of it. Overall an okay episode

    It's Only a Paper Moon
    Okay so one thing I really appreciate is the cinematography in these episodes, Like in this one how when Nog heads to his quarters the rest of the crew is out of focus in the background showing how his distanced himself for them. and the foreshadowing with the line "I don't want to go back to my quarters. Actually, I don't want to go back to my life." Oh Nog its only going downhill from here. I really liked how they were able to make Vic have a more serious role in this, its very good considering that he doesn't usually play a serious part. And some of the lighter comedic stuff in here was pretty like the scene where everyone roasts Juilan for all of his holo-suite programs, As well Nog criticizing the old movies as he's watching them. The progression of Vic & Nog's relationship along with Nog burrowing further into the program, it really shows visually how the problem progresses especially with montage(the music is also bomb here). And the Ezri coming in and reminding Vic that eventually Nog has to leave, and as much fun they've been having together he can't stay there forever. I also enjoy some of the philosophical tones(?) with Vic and his life its an interesting contrast compared to other sentient holograms we've seen, with how Vic just straight out says he's a hologram not a person and he doesn't considering himself to real in a sense. And then Nog's confession and how the war made him confront his own mortality, and then just Vic's response
    VIC: "You stay here, you're going to die. Not all at once, but little by little. Eventually you'll become as hollow as I am."
    NOG: "You don't seem hollow to me."
    VIC: "Compared to you, I'm hollow as a snare drum. Look, kid, I don't know what's going to happen to you out there. All I can tell you is that you've got to play the cards life deals you. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but at least you're in the game." Leading to the hug with Nog and his family :']. Overall a great episode.
     
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  2. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is one of the few "Klingon" episodes I actually enjoy. Seeing Kor slipping away from who he once was is such a sad sight, also Martok's realisation that his revenge isn't as satisfying as he hoped it might be.

    Bloody love this one! Once again shows the strengths of having so many aliens in the cast, as Quark really does an excellent job of picking apart humans, the true savageness that we hide behind a cloak of civility, and his confrontation with Sisko you can just feel the tension and the sparks between them, then to have him protecting his nephew always gets me in the feels. You get to see just what kind of leader Sisko is, how Ezri has come into her own and blended the previous aspects of past hosts with herself making her a jack-of-all-trades, and just how far Bashir has come from the idealistic kid back in the pilot wanting to practice with his phaser to a hardened combatant. It's also got some great one-time guest characters, who you really care for--even though you know not all of them will survive.
     
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  3. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This episode has many quotable moments, but my favorite is "If they succeed, you can drink to their courage, and if they fail, you can still drink to their courage." Too often, we write off people who tried something extreme and noble, but failed. Someone can be a hero in spite of mistakes, shortcomings, and indeed, failures.
     
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  4. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    I agree with most of the ratings, except for Once More Unto the Breach I'd rate as great. Many good conflicts there: Kor vs. Martok, Worf vs. Martok, Kor vs. himself, young crew vs. Kor, all of them vs. the Dominion. All resolved without breaking character.
     
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  5. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    Hm maybe on rewatches i'll change my rating, it's just that while there are great moments, together it doesn't really impress me. And as for the character I probably wouldn't be able to tell if they broke character with him since I'm not very familiar with Kor in TOS
     
  6. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    You probably learned more about Kor from previous DS9 episodes Blood Oath and Sword of Kahless than you would from the single TOS episode Errand of Mercy. In Errand of Mercy he was a fairly typical Klingon commander: arrogant, ruthless, eager for war with the Federation, resentful at being assigned occupation duty of a planet of pacifists instead of somewhere with more opportunity for glory.
     
  7. amp

    amp Commander Red Shirt

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    I'd also add Martok vs. Darok (Martok's elderly valet/aide). Darok was a great character, and not like the high status Klingons we usually see. Martok clearly doesn't respect him and orders him about yet Darok does not kowtow to him. They remind me of an old married couple that are always squabbling.
     
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  8. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh yeah, They definitely build on Kor's character more in DS9 than they did in TOS which is a very nice trend that tends to happen in DS9.
    The dynamic is especially present with lines like MARTOK: "There will come a day, Darok, when your services as my aide may no longer be required."
    DAROK: "I look forward to that day with great anticipation, Until then." and then with the lines(that Bad Thoughts referred already to)
    MARTOK: "On the bridge?"
    DAROK: "If they succeed, you can drink to their courage, and if they fail, you can still drink to their courage." that show even with their bickering they've found a new respect for eachother.
     
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  9. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    Almost finished with DS9. Just a few more episodes to go. The war is obviously coming to a head and they are (mostly) laser focused on that. No ferengi nonsense, no Vic Fontaine crap, no milking the mirror universe for another dumb episode, and Jake is nowhere to be found. Just going out with a bang. Love it! I like the Kai/Dukat sub plot also. It may not be war related but it's good stuff. I also like how they turned Damar from just another Cardassian thug into a sympathetic character and dare I say it, an almost likeable character

    I'm really going to be sorry when I'm done with DS9. When I finished Voyager it felt like a relief. A lot of that series felt like a slog. Not so (for the most part) with DS9.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
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  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Damar is one of my favorite characters by the end of the series. Never would have seen that one coming.
     
  11. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    I think even Kira would agree!
     
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  12. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    Just finished the series. I don't know about any of you but after seeing that I think the next Trek show should have taken place immediately at the end of DS9. I think they missed a huge opportunity to do a show that would have showcased how the Alpha quadrant dealt with the aftermath and recovery of the war. There is huge potential there. I wonder if something like that was ever seriously considered.
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know about immediately versus a year or five after, but as the novels have proven, DS9 set the stage for a new chapter of Trek that TPTB failed to exploit in their desire to look backward instead of forward.
     
  14. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    It's sort of sad from a design point of view. The prequel shows design all their props and ships to look like they're 100 years later than DS9/Voyager, which makes them look horribly wrong next to The Cage's World War II surplus look.
     
  15. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    I also watched VOY Endgame after watching What You Left Behind and I shouldn't have done that. Wow, what a letdown Endgame was for the series ending episode. They finally make it back, everyone is somber, and then it just ends. Bleh! So unsatisfying
     
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  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    After the brutality of war comes the hard work of rebuilding, with the Federation, Klingon and Romulan fleets all having taken huge losses, the Cardassian Union in tatters, the Breen finally showing just how truly devastating they are, the Ferengi going through monumental cultural changes, and every other race in the AQ peeking back out from under the stones they hid beneath ever since the Dominion arrived on our side of the wormhole. Add to that the physical, mental and emotional injuries that crews would be dealing with, as cobbled together and hastily repaired ships struggle to carry out the work of five vessels with barely enough crew to keep just one functioning.

    The story potential in a post-war era is huge. That's part of the reason I think that if they'd insisted on going pre-TOS show after Voyager concluded that it should've been set in the aftermath of the Romulan Wars, with the Federation and Starfleet newly formed, and the launch of the first interspecies line of ships in the form of the Daedalus-Class. They could've picked up thematically when DS9 ended and had lots of new story and character fodder to work with.

    But that's just me.
     
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  17. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    I agree and that's why I think it was a lost opportunity. I also don't like doing pre-TOS shows because it causes the issues we see today, that is reconciling a show made in the 60s using effects and props and stories of the time with what we see in ENT and Discovery. I know the show producers don't really care about that stuff. That's more of a fan bugaboo because of the fanbase attempting to fit everything together like some puzzle from hell that has pieces that don't fit together. I personally despise retconning.
     
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  18. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’m not a huge fan of ENT but it at least has the benefit of being a century earlier than TOS and was an open book and they could’ve done some very interesting things within the limits of what was to come and what little was known, alas they blew it. DIS on the other hand is just shockingly bad, IMHO, and I’ll leave it at that—I’d rather not be branded a toxic fan yet again :rolleyes:
     
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  19. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    I'll be starting on ENT next and I'm really (no, not really) looking forward to the mirror universe :rolleyes: episodes. Got so tired of those in DS9. Nothing but pointless filler.
     
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  20. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They have, and yet they haven't.

    Michael Chabon has admitted that the first season of Picard was written with heavy influence of the Dominion War, but that they purposefully avoided direct references to it. Should you watch, it might be useful to keep that in mind.
     
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